Help finding Taishan Village near Doushan

[taishanchild]

We have identified four villages in the Taishan region where family members lived. We are hoping for asistance in locating them. Any specifics would help such as (1) directions, (2) nearest major towns/cities, (3) a map, or(4) lat/long so we can use Google Earth to find the villages. If names changed, it would be good to know the new names.

The villages are:

Dong Chao -- Fathers village. We think it is near Doushan. We are told the original name was Dong Chiu Chuen but we cannot validate this information.

Ung Chew -- This is our Grandfather's village. We found the name written in some documents from 1904, so the village name could have changed. We know it is in the Taishan area and suspect it could be near Kaiping.

Tung Leung -- This is our Grandmother's village. We suspect it is near Kaiping. Ung Chew and Tung Leung could be near each other. Again, name was found in some old documents, so the name could have changed.

Jin How Market -- Our Grandfather worked in this village for a couple of years.

[Ah Gin]

Hi taishanchild,

Just to start the ball rolling: from the Village Database, there is a 東潮 (Tung Chiu), a 伍 (Ng) Village. Maybe I am hearing what I want to hear, but Dong Chao and Ung Chew sound like the same thing. It is highly probable that your father and grandfather came from the same village -- as I think it was unusual for father and son not to come from the same village.

It will be great if you can post the Chinese characters, so the rest of the experts can help.

Good luck. Iam confident that fellow Forum Members can help.

Regards, Ah Gin

[Henry]

Hi Taishanchild,

Welcome to the Forum.

According to our friend and colleague, Ahgin, is your Chinese family surname 伍 (Ng) ? If so, the village he identified may well be 東潮 (Tung Chiu). Also, as he pointed out - most Chinese couples are usually from villages that are very close to each other.

I did a quick check and Tung Chiu village is supposed to be located near Sze Kau (四九) town which is on the southeastern corner of Taicheng (Taishan City). The nearest market town is Cheung On (長安). The Chinese map websites did not have enough large scale to show Tung Chiu village.

If you have the Chinese characters for Tung Chiu village and Tung Leung village, I can check for the location of these villages on my very large scale topographic maps that were compiled in the early 1940s. They may show both villages.

Once you know the names and location of your ancestral villages and the Chinese names of the grandfather & great grandfather - it is possible to contact the village chief, have him identify village relatives and try to find the family/clan genealogy book. The book is important because it shows the exact relationship of relatives and it is a historical documentation of your ancestry. By the way, traditionally, since these genealogy books are patrilineal, you will need the Chinese names for the father and grandfather of your grandmother.

This information is in many cases inscribed on the gravestones of Chinese ancestors.

Henry

[taishanchild]

Your initial replies were very helpful. Now I see that it is highly likely that family members may have been from the same village.

Here is additional information you suggested might be helpful:

First, here are the family names:

Our mother and grandfather on mother's side = Louie surname. A great Aunt says the original Louie village name was Dong Chiu Chuen. It is now called Dong Chao. INS documents say Ung Chew was the Louie village. This could be a problem with translation.

Our grandmother on mother's side = Wong Shee. Wong Shee said to the INS that she was born in Tung Leung village. She later lived in Ung Chew with her husband. She implied these were different villages.

Our father's surname= Wong. He was born in Xiao Dao Chuen. I attached a scan of the village name written in Chinese. The second village name written on the scanned paper may be our Mother's village, but we are not sure.


A great aunt visited the Louie village many years ago. She recalls going to the village by bus and getting off at the Xin Wu Zi busstop. She walked 10 minutes south to the village. She said the neighboring village was Di Luo.

Finally,I found an old picture of a village. It has some words written on it. Perhaps they will give you a clue. I will attach it to a separate reply.

Thanks for all your help!

Attachments:

[taishanchild]

As I mentioned in my last posting, we have a Chinese village picture with no idea of the name of the village (perhaps because we don't read Chinese). We think it could be related to one of the villages we are seeking to find.

I am attaching it to this posting in case someone can help with translation or identification. It was taken in 1979.

Also, I looked at a website posted by Henry Tom that shows the Taishan District. I spotted a village named Leung Tung at the top of the map where 80 degrees lattitudeand 90 degrees longitude cross. Is this likely to be Tung Leung I mentioned in the earlier posting?

Attachments:

[Henry]

Hi Taishanchild,

I am Henry Tom, by the way, those are military grid lines, not latitude and longitude lines on the map I have posted on my website
Tom Genealogy [http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/maps4.html]. I checked the Village DB [http://www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/search.cgi]
for the village you call Xiao Dao Chuen and it is listed as "Siu To" ( 小道 ) village and it is a Wong village and it is located near the towns
of Chun Hou and Taushan. Please see the maps below. When some of the other Forum members can type out your mother's village name
- I'll try to find that village for you also.

Henry

mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Siu To.jpg[/img]

mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Chun Hou.jpg[/img]

mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Southern Guangdong 2003.jpg[/img]

[taishanchild]

Thanks Henry. You are a big help. Sorry I didn't catch that the Henry Tom site is actually you! But it makes sense as I have found that site to be very informative as well.

We are setting up a plan to go find these villages in about a month, so your guidance is very useful in developing our travel plans. With all the name changes/translation differences, I don't think we would have ever made the connection between the information we had and locations on the map.

Any thoughts on the likelihood of Tung Leung (our reference) and Leung Tung (from your map) being the same places?

[Henry]

Hi Taishanchild,

If you only have a month to prepare for your trip. With this short time, you will need the professional services of my Taishan nephew, Shi Cheng to confirm
the location of your ancestral villages, identify village relatives, try to find your family / clan genealogy book to copy or buy, to make your local reservations,
and serve as your translator and guide. My nephew has helped other Forum members and here are some references:

siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=maps&action=display&thread=947&page=4

siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=names&action=display&thread=821

Please contact me at "[e-mail]" and I will also help you to locate your other villages and help Shi Cheng with your arrangements.

Henry

[taishanchild]

Henry, Ahgin,

By referring us to the database and giving us some naming clues, we think you helped us resolve differences in village names as we knew them and as they probably should have been translated. Here is what we THINK is correct:

Wong Shee (Grandmother) was born and raised in Tong Lung (a Wong village in Toishan, Area 1, Shek Fa Hueng, subhueng Nam Hang Heung). She married Louie Lung whose family was from Sun Chiu (a Louie village in Area 2, Tong Min Hueng) also in Toishan. Once married, she moved to Sun Chiu.

Unfortunately, we had been using English translations that specified the villages as Tung Leung and Ung Chew........so we couldn't be very exact in our search. Your suggestions on alternate spellings and directions to the database helped.

Would you be so kind as to pinpoint these villages on a map as you did for Siu To village?

By the way, I will make contact with you and Shi Cheng about assistance during our trip.

Thanks for getting us this far.

Taishanchild

[Henry]

Hi Taishanchild,

I had a Chinese literate friend type out the second village from your attachment showing:小道村 （Xiaodao Village) and 地羅撈 （Diluolao).

I have updated the original map showing Siu To to include Di Luo village. On the map, the Chinese characters are in
simplified form as opposed to the traditional characters in this post. The distance between the 2 villages is just a little over a mile.


The map below shows your ancestral village Tong Lung in simplified Chinese characters.

Unfortunately, the Chinese map websites do not show Sun Chiu 新潮 village. Later, I will check my large scale topographic maps,
now, my wife wants me to exercise with her in the basement - last month, I had to kill a snake there and she has been really nervous
about staying downthere by herself. :-)

Yes, please contact me [ [e-mail]] soon as you really do not have very much time left before your trip to Taishan.

Henry

mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Tong Lung.jpg[/img]

mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Dajiang Area.jpg[/img]


Update - I checked the China Postal DB and found "Sun Chiu" under "New Dajiang Village", under the major market town
of "Dajiang" which is approximately 13 km due north of Taicheng (Taishan City). Another 3 km northwest of Dajiang is where
Nam Hang is located, Tong Lung village is just north of Nam Hang.

Thus, it looks like Tong Lung village is about 2 miles from Sun Chiu as the crow flies, however, there happens to be a rather
large lake between them.