Chinese Genealogy John Ah Lock

[megsy28]

I am helping my mother do her family tree, and i am stuck. My great great great great grandfather John Ah Lock immigrated to Victoria, Australia for the gold rush in the mid 1800's from Canton, China, he was born about 1835. He married my great great great great grandmother in 1859 which i have the marriage certificate, and they gave birth to my great great great grandmother in 1863.

How do i find his birth certificate?? His marriage certificate says his name is John Ah Lock, occupation Chinese Magistrate, parents are Gan Gue and Mala Gue.

I don't know when he died, but i do know my great great great great grandmother remarried in 1885 indicating that John Ah Lock was deceased about 1875..... I can't find a death certificate.

How do i find out any more information about him...... I can't find any record of his death, maybe he returned to China, my family tree on this lineage has come to a complete stop..... Anyone have any advice??

[helen]

is there any chinese characters on the marriage certificate? have you searched the naa (National Australia Archives)

[megsy28]

I have searched everywhere here, BDM victoria, BDM NSW, National Archives, Public Record Office Victoria and google....

There is no chinese symbols on the certificate anywhere, they got married in Castlemaine, Victoria. It might be a lost cause.

[kerry]

This topic has been discussed generally in the forum before - have a browse around.

"Ah Lock" is probably not a family name that you would be able to track. It more like a nick name. It would be like trying to trace a someone named Bluey. (For those OTOSOTP, Bluey was a Australian nick name that you would ascribe to someone with red hair. It's like we'd call someone who was bald Curly.)

Maybe someone who can speak Chinese (I can't) can comment on whether the parents names given are any sort of clue. Generally, the English transliterations of Chinese names are pretty misleading at best and useless at worst.

When you say "Certificate", is this an original, signed on the day or is it a copy from the Registry office? You really need his name in Chinese characters to make in progress back. You may luck out with original documents - check for additional notes in the margins or on the reverse.

Also, the modern day copies may be restricted in what they are allowed to copy or transcribe. A transcription by an Australian govt department will not be able to handle as Chinese character transcription and it will probably be ignored.

Other observations: you might want to check with the museum in Melbourne but the general story of gold rush immigrants were that they weren't from the higher parts of society in China. Did people who passed the public service exams leave their posts to become gold miners? I would have guessed not but there may have been exceptions.

[jing]

Hi Megsy,

Like Kerry, I would add that the Ah Lock in John's name would refer to his personal Chinese name Lock rather than be his surname. If he was born in China preWestern medicine, he won't have a birth certificate... everything would be in Chinese and he would listed on his family jiapu. If his offspring(s) were male and had Chinese names, and there was transcontinental contact between Australia back to the family home in China, you would be able to track the family back... Whether he married an Australian woman or a Chinese woman also makes a difference of whether the children were raised with Western or Chinese culturally. Are there any family artifacts or Chinese documents?

Try contacting the museum of chinese immigration museum in Melbourne at : museumvictoria.com.au/origins/history.aspx?pid=9. They mention the establishment of the Chinese community in Victoria in 1861. Since you mention that John Ah Lock was a magistrate, he would have been important in China but possible not in Australia as a goldminer. Try finding him on the Australia census. Some years back, professor Ian Welch in the Melbourne area was conducting research on the early Chinese.

Scanning original documents would be a solution to Chinese characters for later translation and analysis. Government research centers may have scanners or bring your own when visiting.

Jing

[megsy28]

Thanks Jing, I have a copy of the register when they married, it has his signature but no chinese letters. He maried an australian woman and he was 24 when he married in 1859. It is difficult also because I am in Sydney which makes visiting the Victoria museum not an option. But i am going to try and look for him on the census as suggested.

[jing]

Hi Megsy28,

I'm in the US so I don't know how often census were done in Australia. In the US, it was every ten years from 1790... with listing of Chinese about 1850 shortly after the gold rush in CA, 1860/1870... and there are now free searches of Ancestry's databases at the regional National Archives. For you, find out what years census were taken, then search John via the 1859/1860. If not found, go forward or back from when he was last known.

You might contact someone at the Museum to see if they may have a library and or someone they can recommend to help you...

In goggling professor Ian Welch's name, he's written an article on Chinese immigrants in Australia... and possibly his contact (Canberra / Melbourne) for 2009:

www.chaf.lib.latrobe.edu.au/welch/exservicemen.htm

Jing

[geoff]

Hello Megsy28,

I'm also researching my Chinese gggfather who spent his early years in Vic goldfields before moving to Sydney.

1. Have you checked out the 3 John Ah Lock naturalisations at NAA, 1 in 1861 & 2 in 1863?

2. At NLA Newspapers online, newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home.............
In the Argus, 15 Nov 1865, page 7 , Insolvent Court notice, ....."Meeting were held & closed in the following estates.......John Ah Lock of Castlemaine, publican". Could this be your ancestor?

3. If you knew his chinese name then you might be able to find his arrival in Vic in the Inward unassisted passenger lists to Vic 1852-1923.

4. Have you contacted the local historical society for any info on John or chinese in the area?

5. If he was a publican in #2 above then he had a business. The local historical society might be able to find his rate notice, business address & years rates were paid.

6. Have you checked Outward Passengers at PROV, if he had trip to China? If you find an overseas trip to China & no trip back to Aust then he might have died China & hence no death registration in Aust.

7. Do you have John's address in Castlemaine from his daughter's birth cert?

8. Could your ancestor be reg/buried under another name? I suspected my maternal ggf died in Melb (from early 1900's letters from China requesting money to be sent to "rebury him"), but I couldn't find his death reg in Vic. So I wrote to the local cemetery (Melb gen cemetery), giving his name, dob, his children's names who predeceased him & range of years to search. MGC replied giving his dod, date of burial & confirming his body was sent to China. He was buried under another variation of his name that I didn't know about. How could I prove this was my ggf? I ordered this person's death reg which confirmed him as my ggf as his wive's & children's names were listed.

9. Could he have moved to another colony (before federation) in Australia? Try death regs in other states of Australia .

Regards,
Geoff

[megsy28]

Thanks Geoff.

I saw the naturalisation records, i have purchased one and awaiting its arrival (fingers crossed i picked the right one).

I have contacted the castlemaine historical society and hopefully they will be able to find out some more information.

Thanks for your help, i hopefully will find some answers.

Megan

[geoff]

Hello Megan,

Could that NLA newspaper article be your John Ah Lock?

You can email the Chinese Museum in Cohen Place Melb, see address online.

I know how difficult it is trying to research over 900km away. I still have to followup some of my suggestions.

Please inform us of the results of your research.

Geoff

[megsy28]

Hi Geoff,, yes i think that could be him.

I have just seen the naturalisation online and it would seem that it was the right guy, John Ah Lock, Castlemaine - he was storekeeper (only a short leap to publican). He was naturalised in 1863. Although it has raised more questions - he says he came out here in 1856 on board the Boanerges, but research says this boat was built in 1856 and can only find voyages to NSW for commencing late 1857.

I have emailed the Castlemaine society, but being that it costs $40 and takes 5-6 weeks, and only accept cheque, i am still thinking about it. It might be quicker/cheaper to get a jetstar flight down and do it myself! lol It seems hard to believe that they have the monopoly on cemetery records.... other cemeteries have theirs online and are free.

Megan

[helen]

try this message board - there may be kind people who can get the info for you.

boards.rootsweb.com/localities.oceania.australia/mb.ashx

also this one - the people are ever so helpful

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,165.0.html