|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 11, 2010 22:48:41 GMT -5
I'm a newbie and just joined this forum. On March 8, 2010, you wrote: Ah, Boston and Chicago -- two of my favourite cities outside CA. Our Clan has a small Association in Boston Chinatown -- so there is enough Gin family members there. Chicago, my grandfather had a restaurant there in his younger days. According to family oral history, his restaurant was near "The Big Fire Engine/Car Head" -- I think to mean Union Station? Probably back in the 40s to 60s. In my collection I have his photo taken in a studio in a small town just outside Chicago. I have yet to dig deep enough to discover the actual name of the restaurant and if he in fact joined the local Clan Association or perhaps one of the Siyi or Chinese Business Associations. So in your travel if you do come across some histories of Chinese Restaurants around Union Station during that period, let me know. "In search of family history" sometimes work in a mysterious way. With just 6 degrees of separation we might just come across my grandfather's life in the Chicago area. Regards, Ah Gin I live in Chicago and can offer some help. The Chicago Fire Department has a firehouse in Chicago's Chinatown on Cermak Road. Your grandfather's restaurant was probably located in Chinatown. I doubt your grandfather's restaurant was near Union Station because there were very few Chinese restaurants outside of Chinatown prior to the 1960s. Suburban sprawl led to some adventurous Chinese to open restaurants elsewhere in the city and suburbs. The Chicago branch of the National Archives and Records Administration has compiled an online listing of names of individuals with an immigration document held in Chicago. It appears that all of the Asians in Chicago during the exclusion era were Chinese. If your grandfather's name is on the following list, I can obtain his immigration documents for you. www.archives.gov/great-lakes/finding-aids/chinese-files-chicago.html |
|
|
|
Post by Ah Gin on Aug 12, 2010 6:33:35 GMT -5
chumley,
Many thanks to your kind offer. It is one of the joys of this Forum -- strangers stretching out to help another. I am grateful for your time and attention.
I accessed the Chinese Exclusion Case Files (URL as provided by you) and I rushed scan through the list, as I was excited with the prospect of finding something about my grandfather's life in Chicago. I found a name that could very well be a close match: Chin Ming Shuck case file 2005/2362. I do have his Chinese name (and indeed all names of my ancestors to our progenitor). If in the archive documentation he signed his name in Chinese, that will be a great news, as we can then be certain. The time period we are talking about is probably between 1930s and 1960s -- I know, it's broad. He virtually worked his entire life in the States, before retiring in Hong Kong.
Whatvere the outcome,many thanks again for your offer to help.
Regards, Ah Gin
|
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 12, 2010 20:40:11 GMT -5
Ah Gin,
Sorry, I haven't mastered the URL link yet.
The exclusion era was from 1882-1943 in the U.S. During my research, I had read that some case files were kept open beyond 1943 due to a suspicion of paper son immigration.
Case files will have the individual's written Chinese name in it. On one of my grandfather's documents, it appears his written Chinese name was traced over the actual Chinese characters. In that era, I don't think copier machines were invented yet.
At your convenience, provide me your grandfather's written Chinese name. The next time I return to the Chicago branch of the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), I will request to look at the Chin Ming Shuck case file number 2005/2362. If the Chinese characters match, I'll request copies and mail it to you in Melbourne.
I haven't been to the Chicago branch of the NARA since last year, but each time I go, the head archivist will stop by to say hello. He doesn't know me by name, but recognizes me as a repeat guest. I think I'm the only Chinese or Asian who goes there for research.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ah Gin on Aug 12, 2010 22:46:07 GMT -5
chumley,
My grandfathe's Chinese name is 甄明策
I have sent you a Personal Message with more information.
REgards, Ah Gin
|
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 17, 2010 17:03:36 GMT -5
Ah Gin,
Earlier today, I went to the NARA's Chicago branch. Unfortunately, Chin Ming Shuck isn't your paternal grandfather. The Chinese characters and village names didn't match. I didn't read the individual's entire documents and only saw enough to know he wasn't your grandfather.
The individual's Chinese characters for Chin and Shuck didn't match what you provided me. In addition, this person was born in 1882 and was from Ksa Chong Ling Village in Sunning District (Taishan).
|
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 17, 2010 20:10:07 GMT -5
I forgot to mention Chin Ming Shuck was the individual's birth name. He also provided a married name (generation name), but I didn't pay any attention to it since I already knew he wasn't your grandfather.
Your paternal grandfather's romanized name on your webpage is your grandfather's married name. He may have immigrated to the U.S. under his birth name. It might even be under Gin.
At your convenience, check the University of California-Berkeley Haas School of Business IBER database list on the link I gave you. You might find a match among the romanized names of Chin immigrants (don't forget to check Gin too). If you find a match, perhaps one of your SF relatives can go to the NARA's San Bruno branch (suburb of SF) to examine the documents.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ah Gin on Aug 17, 2010 23:37:29 GMT -5
chumley,
I am indebted to you, for your time and effort in visiting the public record office in Chicago. I had hope that it might be my grandfather, but as fate has it, it not the person we are looking for. I did scan through the U of B database, with combination of surnames, such as Gin, Yan, Chin, but have yet to locate my gf's movement or case file. Perhaps I am a fatalist: if it is meant to be found, we will find him eventually. I have the oral account of my gf's career while he was in the US, but I was hoping to pin down for certain where and when he was in Chicago etc.
My rough estimation of my gf's birth year is 1885, plus and minus 10 years. He was probably born in Shek Hoi in Sunning. Shek Hoi in those days was known as Suin Tow Shek, and of course Sunning was the old name for Toishan.
Regards, Ah Gin
|
|
|
|
Post by Ah Gin on Aug 17, 2010 23:49:02 GMT -5
By the way, the nearest Market Town for Shek Hoi is actually Hoiping (Kaiping). I consider myself to be from Hoiping, although for simplicity in communication, I say I am a Toishan person.
Regards, Ah Gin
|
|
|
|
Post by mugenpower168 on Aug 18, 2010 3:23:41 GMT -5
By the way, the nearest Market Town for Shek Hoi is actually Hoiping (Kaiping). I consider myself to be from Hoiping, although for simplicity in communication, I say I am a Toishan person. Regards, Ah Gin Hi Ah Gin Can you please explain to me what a Market Town is? I noticed Markets are mentioned on the Roots Village Database. I would like to know where they fit within the administrative divisions. |
|
|
|
Post by helen on Aug 18, 2010 4:28:42 GMT -5
My understanding is that the market town is a centre where villagers from the surrounding areas went for their main shopping (Chung Hoo). Usually the village itself had its own market days - but if you wanted more you went to the bigger towns. eg Bak Shek in Zengcheng had yum char and chinese opera, shoe shops and cake shops.
|
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Aug 18, 2010 7:24:50 GMT -5
Can you please explain to me what a Market Town is? I noticed Markets are mentioned on the Roots Village Database. I would like to know where they fit within the administrative divisions. Market Town= 墟In past "PROs" "走3墟" make a living in Zhongshan. 大涌: 逢农历一、四、七 | 沙溪: 逢农历二、五、八 | 沙岗墟: 逢农历三、六、九 |
|
|
|
Post by chak on Aug 18, 2010 7:49:44 GMT -5
Ah Gin, is Shek Hoi a "Gin" village and is it in the Roots VillageDB? I couldn't find it.
|
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Aug 18, 2010 7:59:15 GMT -5
Ah Gin, is Shek Hoi a "Gin" village and is it in the Roots VillageDB? I couldn't find it. (ex= Toyshan / Today = Hoiping) |
|
|
|
Post by mugenpower168 on Aug 20, 2010 4:22:19 GMT -5
Can you please explain to me what a Market Town is? I noticed Markets are mentioned on the Roots Village Database. I would like to know where they fit within the administrative divisions. Market Town= 墟In past "PROs" "走3墟" make a living in Zhongshan. 大涌: 逢农历一、四、七 | 沙溪: 逢农历二、五、八 | 沙岗墟: 逢农历三、六、九 Thanks for the replies Helen and tyuti1668. According to this zh-yue.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%AB%AF%E8%8A%AC, Duen Fun was a market during the Republic era. However, according to Village DB www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=35, Duen Fun is a Township (鄉) with its closest market being Shan Dai (山底). So my question is, which source is correct? |
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 20, 2010 14:38:31 GMT -5
I have a copy of a 1949 Toishan District map with the heungs (townships) and market towns in Cantonese Romanization. The heungs are in CAPS and the market towns are in Upper & Lower Case letters.
It's an 8.5" x 11" copy of a copy of a copy so I don't know the original publisher of the map. The approximate boundaries of the heungs are also drawn. Duen Fun is listed as a heung (township) and the Shan Dai market is within Duen Fun's boundary.
|
|
