Ng Fun Chung from Zengcheng?

[antongyi]

Hi all. I am working on tracing my great grandfather, who came to Australia from Canton around 1870. He made some money here in the Bendigo goldfields and married a poor Irish girl, had three children - one of which was my grandmother. I thought I would share my story here and see if anyone makes any connections or has any ideas.

My great grandfather called himself "Im Fun Chung" or "Charley Funchung". From a handwritten note in Chinese related to a court case archived in the Melbourne Magistrate's Court records, we believe his name was Ng Fon Chung or Ng Fun Chung (thanks Leslie Chong for your help) - in Mandarin Wu Huancong (…ÇŸ¨Â”).

From his marriage certificate, we believe his home town may have been Zengcheng (Jing Sang). However, from his naturalisation applications (he applied twice over five years after being rejected the first time) which we accessed from the Australian Government archive, he was variously born "near Hong Kong" or in a place called "Nayon".

In Bendigo, he and his family formed a close association with the O'Hoy family, who owned the Toi Shan restaurant (our favourite eating place as kids). This might suggest a Toisan (Tai Shan) heritage of some kind, especially when put together with the "near Hong Kong" birthplace. Tai Shan is certainly nearer Hong Kong than Zengcheng.

So I now have two possible home towns. One would be the Ng village of Nga Yiel in Zengcheng. The other would be the Ng village of Ngar Yiuw in Tai Shan.

My great grandfather probably made at least two trips home to China, one in 1893 and another in 1898. It is possible he also had a wife (and possibly a family) in China, but was forced to abandon them due to the White Australia Policy. It is also quite likely that he returned to China as an old man and died there. Many things were not discussed in our family.

The records I have of him are the court note, the two naturalisation applications and four photographs (including one probably taken outside his home in China). Someone in my family has a copy of his marriage certificate. There is also a tombstone in Chinese on my great-grandmother's gravesite in Bendigo. There may be more in that cemetery, now that we have Chinese characters to look for.

That's my story, other than that I spent a year living in China recently with my wife and kids, but not searching for Charley (because we knew too little at that stage). I am very interested to learn more if anyone can assist (or provide links I might not know about).

Thanks again to Leslie Chong and Helen Wong and the many others who have already added to my understanding of what I have in hand.

Tony Gilbert
(An Tong Yi)
Brisbane, Australia

[twoupman]

See you have decided to come here from www.ziplink.net/~rey/ch/queries/ with your query on your ggf.

Here are some questions for you:

Would it be possible to see a photo of this "... handwritten note in Chinese related to a court case archived in the Melbourne Magistrate's Court records" to verify his Chinese name? Your attempt at inserting the characters did not work.

Is it possible to see a photo of the marriage certificate and the naturalization papers to verify this place called "Nayon"?

If you look at a map of the Pearl River Delta Region you will see that Taishan is farther away (across the delta) from Hong Kong than it is from Zhencheng which is above it.

Where did you get the names of the places in Zhengcheng and Taishan and how do they relate to "Nayon"?

Would it be possible to see a photo of your ggm's tombstone and verify what is written in Chinese?

[antongyi]

.

Hi twoupman. Yes, I was referred here by another site user who corresponded with me from the site you mention.

The naturalisation papers would not be of any more use to you than to me. The word "Nayon" is just handwritten there in English. There is a slim possibility it could say "Nayou", but that's the only other possible interpretation of what it written.

I don't have the marriage certificate and the cemetery is at the other end of the country from where I live, but I will see what my brother might be able to arrange.

The villages mentioned in my post are the two Ng villages in Zengcheng and Taishan that most closely resemble "Nayon" to English ears. They come from websites that list village names in specific areas of China.

After more discussions today, I think the links with Taishan are too thin to pursue at this stage. Zengcheng is far more likely, assuming that this is the "Jang Sing" on the marriage certificate.

Tony

[geoff]

Hello Tony,

I viewed the Memorial for Letters of Naturalisation & the handwritten Australian/english word looks like "Nayou" to me.

Geoff

[helen]

Hi Tony - If your family are more familiar with Cantonese, then he would mostly likely be from Zeng Cheng - as the people from Siyip/ Toishan speak another dialect -

[twoupman]

Your ggf's name was Ngh Wuhn Chung (吳煥聰) in Standard Cantonese Yale Romanization. This does not correspond with the other Ngh (伍) surname in Ngar Yiu village, Taishan, as shown in the Village Database. Both have the same sound in Cantonese and Mandarin but different characters.

It would help to see the naturlaization papers just so another pair of eyes can decipher "Nayon" which according to Geoff looks like "Nayou". There might also be other information on them that may have been overlooked.

The next step is to find a linkage of where this village may be, so the marriage certificate and tombstone will have to be verified. Granted you are in Brisbane and the grave is in Bendigo, but I assumed you had a photo of it. The Chinese script on the tombstone will probably save you a lot of speculation and time.

[antongyi]

Hi twoupman. As Geoff has already discovered, I think, the naturalisation papers can be viewed online at naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=1780878&I=1&SE=0 and naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=1838096&I=1&SE=0. Should have thought of that earlier - sorry. Both run to about 5-10 pages.

The first appears to be a rejected application because it did not fit the legislation. This would seem to correspond with his first return visit to China. The second could correspond with the time he took his Australian family back to China, but not sure about that.

I will see what can be done about the marriage certificate and the tombstone. Perhaps I can get two of my brothers connected into this discussion as well, as they may have other resources. Both have done independent research at various times.

I guess one of the reasons I am on this forum, rather than others, is that Bendigo had a strong Sze Yup migration around the time my GGF came to Australia. No-one in my family speaks any Chinese (except me, yi dien dien, learnt as an adult) as the second generation tried very hard to Anglicise itself to avoid bigotry. But you would only need to see some of my aunties to know their heritage, so a silly game plan really.

Tony

[twoupman]

Tony,

I had a good look at the first page of the first application for naturalization and conclude the place name looks more like "Nayon" rather than "Nayou". As I mentioned in the other forum, it is a two syllable word. The second syllable On (安) is a common second name for a village. To pin down the village location would require at least a county name. Hopefully your brothers may be able to supply some kind of clue. If they have anything with Chinese writing on it, perhaps they can post them here for us to review.

I can understand why your relatives tried so hard to Anglicize and "disinherit" their Chinese ancestry as it was caused by the onerous climate generated by the White Australia Policy. This is not an uncommon burden shared by the descendants of mixed Chinese/Caucasian marriages of yester-years.

[raymond]

Tony,

This thread of information is a bit of a long shot but may be worth looking into........Hong Kong Island used to have about 20 villages many, many years ago. However, 17 of those villages have since disappeared due to urbanization and redevelopment. One of those villages that disappeared in the name of "progress" is Nan On Fong Village (“ìˆÀ–V‘º). "Nan On" sounds vaguely similar to "Nayon". Check the Chinese characters for verification. Certainly your great grandfather's alleged birthplace as being "near Hong Kong" gives "Nan On Fong Village (“ìˆÀ–V‘º)" some creedence. Good luck on yet another tidbit of information that may lead you to the correct genealogical path.

Raymond

[geoff]

Tony,
Have you found your GGF's will or probate papers? His will may have his signature in chinese.
Geoff

[antongyi]

Hi all. I had an opportunity to quiz my mother a bit yesterday on her recollections. My GGF was dead long before she was born, unfortunately, so she never knew him. But she did have a fair recollection of favourite phrases her mother used in Chinese which might give some clue to dialect.

- "Yit hee" - someone who is wild or angry

- "Ar ning ung arng tay" - can't see for looking

- "Gay shee" - chook droppings

- "Do shee" - black beans (see the connection?)

- "Ay jalor" - yes.

Now these are very phonetic, just as she pronounced them to me. Does any of this ring any bells for anyone?

Probate papers are still a possibility, but a long term one as they'll take some finding if they exist at all. At least we may know his preferred solicitor from his naturalisation applications.

We are still hoping to follow up the gravestones of his wife and his son in Bendigo and my brother is scanning some additional stuff he has. But not expecting miracles there.

I think it's very unlikely he was buried in Australia. It seems very likely he returned to China before he died. And if not, it was common practice among the guilds in those days to send the bodies of wealthier Chinese back to China for burial anyway. It is possible that guild records may still exist somewhere.

Tony

[geoff]

Tony,

Will & probate papers are archived by the relevant state government archive not with the solicitor. The will maybe kept with the solicitor before he died but not after his estate is granted probate by the Court. In NSW, probate packets are archived at State Records NSW. In Victoria see www.prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria/Guides/guide70.pdf

Geoff.

[geoff]

Tony,

Any news on your research?

Geoff

[antongyi]

Hi all, I just realised that the note with my GGF's name in chinese characters was never actually uploaded to this forum, so I have linked it in the original posts above. Any help is always appreciated. Research outside this forum points to Ng Fun Chung or Ng Fon Chung being originally from Ngar Yiew village, near ZengCheng. But to confirm this I need to find someone who can get into the village records I think.

Anyone got any ideas how to take this further?

Tony

.

[geoff]

Hello Antongyi,

I was researching "Ng" surname from Ngar Yiew village nearly 2 years ago. I was "Sydney", a guest member.

See Location, Jung Seng Province Canton, page 3 from 10 march 2006 onwards. The forum has identified the location of the village. I'm also interested in village records. Research in China is planned but Australian records are keeping me busy now.

Geoff