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Post by ngkokweng on May 4, 2013 16:09:10 GMT -5
lachinatown, Help! Help! Can help me confirm the exact coordinates of Bat Sing Heung (°ËÐÕàl) Nam On Lay (ÄÏ°²Àï) as well as Bat Sing Heung (°ËÐÕàl) Sun Tin Lay (ÐÂÌïÀï). From your earlier post, you stated that coordinates 22.366904,112.698355 will take me to the approximate location, postal code 529300. ¹ã¶«Ê¡ ½ÃÅÊÐ ¿ªÆ½ÊÐ ³¤É³Çø Èý½¹ÜÇø ÐÂÌîÀï. And, Èý½ is located at 22.371666,112.672863 northwest of ³¤É³. More closer to the village(?!). On the other hand, from chinese.rootswiki.legacy1.net/doku.phpid=references:villages:village_database:ng&s[]=wu, I noted the coordinates of Bat Sing Heung (°ËÐÕàl) Nam On Lay (ÄÏ°²Àï) is 22 22 30 N, 112 41 24 E. And, Bat Sing Heung (°ËÐÕàl) Sun Tin Lay (ÐÂÌïÀï) is also 22 22 30 N, 112 41 24 E. BOTH, having the same coordinates. Both, located on water surface instead of land mass when I used Google Map (http://maps.google.com.sg/mapshl=en&gs_rn=12&gs_ri=psyab&cp=23&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=22+22+30+N,+112+41+24&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.bmk&biw=1024&bih=564&wrapid=tljp136769894246600&um=1&ie=UTF8&sa=N&tab=wl). Now, I am getting a little confused whether there are two or three places in the above-mentioned coordinates. I would like to have the exact coordinates so that I can pin-point precisely on Google Map. In doing so, I can actually see the terrain, the landscape/aerial views and sometimes photographs too. This will help me a lot when I am physically on the ground to identify these locations. Thank you.
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Post by ngkokweng on May 4, 2013 16:19:19 GMT -5
Just wondering is there a possibility to take a ferry from Hongkong to Macau and then a bus/coach to Kaiping. From the map, the journey is directly towards the westerly direction and looks like the shortest displacement too. Thank you.
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Post by lachinatown on May 4, 2013 23:07:13 GMT -5
ngkokweng, the village database coordinates are more general location for the Heung (based on the US Army map that Henry Tom has gotten for us); whereas the decimal coordinates are more specific off the maps.google.com. We are in the process of verify the coordinate in the village database. But because some villages are too small that they are not shown on the google maps. It has become a difficult task in match all the villages.
Administratively, "ÄÏ°² (NanAn) ÐÂÌî´å (XinTian)", "³¤É³Çø (ChangSha) ³å³Î¹ÜÇøÐÂÌï´å (XinTian)" are under the jurisdiction of ³¤É³ (ChangSha), which is located at 22.366229,112.698569
22.361427,112.657328 = ÄÏ°² (NanAn), which does not show up on google map and southwest of Èý½ (Sanjiangcun).
Please note the coordinates shifted when switch from map to satellite views. The coordinates I use is map view (22.361427,112.657328), but it shows on an island when viewed in satellite view. Use (22.365436,112.653844) for ÄÏ°² (NanAn) when viewing in satellite view.
Also note Bayi °ËÒ» village is just west of ÄÏ°² (NanAn). Based on these information, I would guess these are your villages. Somehow, they are all linked together.
Maybe there are two XinTian, one ÐÂÌîÀï and one ÄÏ°²ÐÂÌî´å and both are not shown up on maps.
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Post by chansomvia on May 5, 2013 22:49:34 GMT -5
Ngkokweng
I went to my village via various routes and had the initial trepidation of trying to find my way in a jungle of haphazard old buses with poor puctuality etc. These misgivings were all wrong when I actually went there. In getting to China there are many daily regular Low Cost carriers from Singapore/KualaLumpur flying into Hong Kong, Macau, Guangzhou and Shenzen, one way price around US$190, but many cheaper offers if you can time it, for US$100 or less. I will give you my experience, which may differ from others.
I flew into Hong Kong and walked to the SkyPier booking counter inside the Terminal without clearing Customs or Immigration, a quick hassle free purchase of the cheap ferry ticket to Zhuhai, 55 minute smooth sailing in a very comfortable clean roomy air-conditioned deck. They asked if I had luggage and took my luggage tags, they collected the luggage for me and put it in the ferry. After arriving punctually at Zhuhai and quick exit through the overseas tourist China immigration I collected my luggage and took a metered taxi waiting outside the terminal to my hotel. Look at their website as Skypier goes to Macau, Shenzen, Dongguan and other ports daily.
I spent a couple of days in Zhuhai getting over my jet-lag (I had flown in from London) and enjoying the food and non-crowded city, took 2 RMB bus rides circling the whole city and beach. I then took a taxi to the Zhuhai long distance bus station just across the road leading into Macau. There were hourly buses to all parts of Guangdong including Kaiping. Ticketing is highly computerised, with huge electronic information boards. In Chinese only but you can ask the multitude of security and other staff where to go, and which bus, as although the tickets were printed from a common screen the booking staff could book for any of the buses which belonged to individual companies.
Buses were clean (not allowed to eat or smoke on board) very well maintained with no engine smoke, airconditioned and big reclining seats. And on time to the minute. There were short rest stops. I dropped off in Taisan (Taicheng) where Tom's nephew Tan Shi Cheng met me, after a meal we negotiated a taxi to take us to Haiyan and back. Going back to Hong Kong Airport was even easier as we could check in our luggage at Zhuhai Ferry Port, and get our airline boarding passes on the dedicated counters after the Immigration in Zhuhai, hassle free and no crowds.
I also flew into Shenzen and took a taxi to my hotel, spent a couple of days exploring the city, got pneumonia and treated as an outpatient in a Chinese Hospital.. They do not have private doctor clinic in Shenzen. Given the best medicine (my daughter is a pharmacist here) and took a battery of scans, xrays, bloodtest, all results were ready in 30 minutes as the hospital had all the latest equipment at site. Results all computerised including the radiologists results. From Shenzen took the express train to Guangzhou. Slick operation with clockwork efficiency, clean, stainless steel everywhere so no rusting, one wipe and all shining. From Guangzhou, after a few days exploring and meeting friends, I took a bus to Xinhui, got friends with their own car to take us to Haiyan, Kaiping, and surroundings.
Everything is changing in China at an incredibly and massive fast pace, the high speed train halves the travel time from Xinhui to Guangzhou, although travel by bus to most points is generally a short two hour comfortable stint on the many expressways.
If you land in Macau you can walk across the border and right into the bus station. There is a huge megamall between the border crossing and the bus station where you can spend days shopping. Travel in China it is unbelievably slick, Mandarin is almost a necessity as Cantonese is not widely spoken by the first point of contact i.e bus and taxi drivers, security guards, ticketing and bank clerks, waiters, hotel maids, sales staff, presume these lower paid menial work is not attractive to the locals in Guangdong.
I usually travel at a leisurely pace now, having been on the rat race for the past fifty years. As they say in Chinese: you cannot view the beauty of flowers from a galloping horse.
What to see in a city?, again the English says the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. My children will spend hours at a historical site as they studied Chinese History and geography from a Chinese point of view whilst I will glance around and wonder why they spent so much money on a piece of rock. To each his or her own.
Which ever way you take to go to Kaiping, you will find that the communication between the major towns and airports in China is efficient, they have to be when they have to move millions daily.
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Post by ngkokweng on May 6, 2013 7:24:07 GMT -5
laohuaqiao, My grandfather name 吳長原. His wife name 司徙瑞英. Hope this information helps a little. Thanks.
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Post by ngkokweng on May 6, 2013 10:04:51 GMT -5
chansomvia,
Thank you for sharing with me your journey and experience. I really appreciate it.
This is my travel plan. I will fly to Macau. Spend a night in Macau. Take a bus/coach to Kaiping. Spend two days in Kaiping to track down my ancestral village/people, jiapu and a visit to the ancestral burial ground. Take a bus/coach from Kaiping to Shenzen. Spend two nights in Shenzen. Cross over to Hongkong. Spend two nights there and then take a flight home from HK.
What do you think? Is this a doable?
Btw, just wondering why did you fly to HK and then took a ferry to Zhuhai instead of taking a flight direct to Macau (which is very close to Zhuhai).
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Post by ngkokweng on May 6, 2013 12:07:19 GMT -5
laohuaqiao, My grandfather passed on in 1970. He was said to be at least 80 plus year old but I am unable to confirm his actual age.
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Post by chansomvia on May 7, 2013 6:57:17 GMT -5
ngkokweng,
Your proposed travel plans are very doable as travel from Hong Kong or Macau to Kaiping is a very well traveled route. Why did I use Hong Kong? I took advantage of using the Skypier from Hong Kong International airport as it provided a fast easy departure on a good ferry into China through Zhuhai without getting out of HKIA through Customs/Immigration, lugging my bag into the crowded train/bus/shuttle/taxi through the teeming crowd who do not know what queuing is, then finding a bus/train/ferry to Kaiping, going through the two checkpoints at Lowu, especially as it was on a National Holiday. I also flew into Hong Kong from London and not Macau as Macau is not served by many direct flights from London.
Flying into Macau and then getting a bus to Kaiping can be complicated. You need to get out of the airport through Immigration/Customs , get a bus or taxi to the border into Zhuhai, go through the China Immigration/Customs by walking, then on the other side get a taxi to take you to the bus station, queue to buy your bus ticket. There could be an easier way but cannot comment on this as Macau is not on my list of places to travel to.
I have not followed your thread but two days to visit your village and a day to pay respects to the burial site looks doable if you have located the village and liased with the relatives to visit the burial site. If you have not made prior arrangements you may find locating the village and relatives quite time consuming. If you have located one relative then you may by protocol be pressurised in visiting other relatives, or waiting for them to come to meet you.
If you are going to pay respects to the graves of your ancestors then you need to prepare early. Most village burial plots are in remote areas and unless it is ChengMing you will find the plots full of weeds, they do not usually have full time cemetery gardeners and caretakers. If the relatives are asked for a paying respect ceremony in good time they will be able to have the grave site prepared for the ceremony. And get the joss sticks etc for the ceremony. Depending on how deep your pocket is, or how much you want to be seen as a filial descendant the ceremony can be as simple as walking to the gravesite, light some joss sticks if your religion does not object to this, bow to pay homeage, clean up the grave then move off. Some more elaborate procedures is to bring up a roast pig or two, other food, and lay these up on the previously cleaned grave site, as offerings, have chanting and prayers and talking to the deceased souls, Accompanied by joss sticks burning and bowing. Usually adjourning to a village feast afterwards, and handing out of red envelopes. Numbers can be ten to a hundred or more depending on how deep the impression one wishes to make. You judge for yourself if one day is enough
If the gravestones are in a bad shape or if one wishes to build a more prominent gravestone then one could hand out sufficient donation for the repair or upgrading.
I have taken the train from Guangzhou to Hong Kong, it crawled through Shenzen after starting at a fast pace from Guanzhou. Getting down from the train in Hong Kong train station which is out of the city we were accosted by many taxi touts, we avoided them and took a licensed taxi which we thought was safer. That guy took us a merry go round to our hotel, fleece the tourist is a game played out in Hong Kong without an ounce of conscious. You will see for yourself why I avoided going into Hong Kong and took the Skypier.
I have pictures of the visit but not as clever as douglaslam in putting them in this forum, but as said earlier you will find that travel in China now is in one of the most modern trains, well maintained buses running frequent and punctual services, regular and frequent ferries. Also the disease of fleecing tourists has caught on in the cities, but thankfully this is not prevalent in the villages where you can meet some of the most genuine of people willing to share their time and information.
Joe
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Post by FayChee on May 7, 2013 14:37:38 GMT -5
Hi Ngkokweng, I posted some Seto information on the Seto/Sito/SooHoo thread.
Fay Chee
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Post by laohuaqiao on May 7, 2013 20:59:57 GMT -5
ngkokweng, Information given on your grandfather will be very helpful.
As Chansomvia said, getting a bus to Kaiping from Gongbei district in Zhuhai (across border with Macau) is more convenient than in Macau. Flying into Macau or not depends on whether you want to visit Macau and how convenient for you to fly into Macau.
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Post by ngkokweng on May 8, 2013 15:51:54 GMT -5
Fay Chee, Thank you so much for your information. I will also find time to read through your entire thread.
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Post by ngkokweng on May 8, 2013 16:13:40 GMT -5
Chansomvia,
Thanks for your fantastic post. After going through your post, I am now changing plan to fly to Hongkong. From Hongkong, I will take a ferry to Zhuhai to go to Kaiping directly. I will skip Macau. From Kaiping, I will travel to shenzhen and then back to Hongkong.
I will need to make provision to spend more time in Kaiping from what I gathered from your post. I have not liaised with my relatives there. I have not found them. I am going in blind.
I will spend three nights in Kaiping, one night in Shenzhen and two nights in Hongkong.
Will this travel itinerary be to tight? Thank you.
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Post by ngkokweng on May 8, 2013 16:31:53 GMT -5
laohuaqiao,
Happy happy! I am glad the information about my grandfather is useful.
I have a black and white passport photograph of my grandfather taken in his eighties. I also have a photograph of my grandmother probably taken in her seventies/eighties too. I should bring along these photographs to show my relatives, shouldn't I? Btw, what other relevant stuff I should bring along for this lineage purpose.
I will also take your advice to get a bus to Kaiping from Gongbei district in Zhuhai. How do I get to Gongbei district from the Skypier location arriving from Hongkong. Thank you.
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Post by laohuaqiao on May 8, 2013 17:41:51 GMT -5
Ngkokweng, With a few exception, after arriving at HK airport, you go down a long, main corridor and at the end of the corridor, before the HK immigration and customs, there is a ticket counter for ferries to Macau, Zhuhai and Shenzhen. You buy your ticket to Zhuhai Jiuzhougang 珠海九洲港. The ticket agent will verify that you have a valid China visa and take your flight baggage claim check. The ferry company will retrieve your baggage for you and you claim you baggage when you arrive in Zhuhai. You will need an allowance of at least 1 hour between your flight arrival and the ferry departure in order for bags to be transfer to the ferry.
The last time I took the ferry, the last ferry for Zhuhai departed at 8PM. That means your flight should arrive well before 7pm. You should check with ferry schedules to be sure.
Once you have arrived at Zhuhai Jiuzhougang and cleared Chinese immigration and customs, as you exit the building turn left and enter the next entrance to the buildling on the left, you'll find a ticket lobby for ferry back to HK and a counter for bus tickets to different parts of Guangdong. Check their schedule for any bus to Kaiping. This is Jiuzhougang terminal. If there is no bus or there is a long wait before the next bus, take a taxi to Gongbei Bus terminal 拱北 长途 汽车 总站. There should be more buses leaving for Kaiping there. Express buses from Zhuhai to Kaiping should take about two and a half hour.
Generally, if you arrive in HK in the morning, then you should be in Kaiping in the afternoon; if you arrive in the afternoon, you may have to stay overnight at Zhuhai.
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Post by kevinlau on May 9, 2013 10:50:25 GMT -5
Hi sorry for taking so long to get back to you! My grandads name was 刘阿九,he was from 广东省,when he wrote the place name for hometown he wrote in English the word DO, though it was probably not him who wrote it, rather someone trying to Guess how to write it phonetically. I have checked places that contain 都 or similar sounding names. The only ones i found were 花都 which is a relatively new name and longdu which is now 大涌!because of his Chinese boxing skills, someone has suggested a nearby village to longdu. There are many aspects to this particular place that seem to be pointing me more and more in that direction. Will let all know how I get on.
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