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Post by lolly on Aug 5, 2013 4:45:47 GMT -5
My grandfather arrived in Melbourne aboard the Tyueen in 1900 according to his Alien Resident in Australia application of 1939. His previous Alien Registration in 1916 listed his entry to the Commonwealth as September 1889. I have not been able to locate a record of his actual arrival in Australia. His marriage certificate of 1911 to my Australian grandmother in Melbourne, names his parents as Pang Chuck Fay (agent) and Kong Lau. The DOB varies on the official marriage and alien registration certificates from 1872 to 1881. Place of origin is simply Canton, China. Occupation: cabinetmaker and later gardener. Andrew moved to Sydney in the 1930s, and died there in 1958. He was buried at Rookwood cemetery by the Brothers of the Chinese Masonic Society. I have learned from the CMS that Andrew was a well respected member of their Lion Dancing team, and the attached information and chinese characters for his name and village was provided by them. I am anxious to learn anything about Andrew's (assuming that was not his original name) background and/or family in China. We sadly did not know him at all in his lifetime here. His sole surviving son (age 88) is very keen to discover any details at all about his heritage. Andrew Pang.docx (219.74 KB)
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Post by helen on Aug 5, 2013 5:16:30 GMT -5
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Post by lolly on Aug 5, 2013 5:52:50 GMT -5
Yes, thanks Helen. There are a couple of registration forms and also notices of change of abode and a replacement of registration application. I have followed up as much as I can from the information provided there.
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 5, 2013 7:32:48 GMT -5
lolly, the Pangs are very prominent in the traditional Chinese community of Sydney. By traditional, I don't mean the Mandarin-speaking new arrivals. The Hingara Restaurant in Dixon St. was run by the well-known identity, the late Mrs. Pang 彭師奶. I knew Mrs. Pang, she was a very generous and kind person. I remember her fondly. She would certainly have known your grandfather. An old timer Norman Lee, who died about three years ago, in his 90s, would also know him. I knew Norman well.
Your ancestor's village and mine speak the same dialect. I am going to China in November. If you can supply me with more information such as more family memeber's names in Chinese, I can pay a visit to your ancestral village and make enquires. Success depends very much on if your grandfather's name was entered in the zupu, clan genealogy register. That's why more names provided, the better it is for the search.
Your village is very conveniently located. If I can locate your ancestral home, I'll take photos for all to see. Tell me just what exactly do you want to find out. I'll try my best to extract information from village elders. Because I, and my village travel companions speak the same dialect, if would break down barriers and suspicion. Douglas
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Post by lolly on Aug 5, 2013 8:16:27 GMT -5
Thank you for your input Douglas. I have actually been in touch with a Susan Pang in Sydney and she does have recollection of my grandfather as a friend of her fathers, but did not know him well. She does have a picture in her mind of seeing him smoking on the corner of Dixon St. Unfortunately her only reliable sources who may have been able to help have all passed away over three years ago. I appreciate your offer of assistance on your November visit. I will speak with my uncle and also try to get Andrew's parents names (Pang Chuck Fay and Kong Lau) in chinese. Unfortunately we have no leads as to any other family members from China .... but I will keep searching!
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Post by Brad Powe on Aug 6, 2013 1:16:48 GMT -5
Douglas having helped me out on similar matters, I had a quick look on Trove (www.nla.gov.au/trove) for "Andrew Pang" references, but only got one hit (from the SMH, 17 October 1931) that also refered to two possible friends of Andrew Pang's, viz:
CHINESE ASSAULTED.
Several actions by Chinese residents of Alexandria against William Jackson, for assault on August 14, were dealt with by Mr Atkinson, S.M., at Redfern Police Court.
Low Kin summoned Jackson for assault and malicious damage. Jackson was fined £1, with £2/2/9 costs, for the assault, and 10/, with £2/2/9 costs, and 30/ damages, for the damage. For having assaulted Andrew Pang, Jackson was fined £1, with £2/8/9 costs.
Charges brought by Jackson against Yee Quay, Low Kin, and Andrew Pang, for alleged assault, were dismissed
The Chinese alleged that Jackson went out to their shop at Alexandria and asked for long soup. He used bad language when served, and was told to get out, and, it was stated, later hit some of the Chinese with a paling.
Jackson, a dealer, said that when he asked for the soup some of the Chinese went to push him out, and to defend himself he pulled a paling off a fence. One of them struck him with an iron bar, and he "went down to it."
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Post by Brad Powe on Aug 6, 2013 1:27:27 GMT -5
The ship Andrew Pang came out on would have been the SS Taiyuan, sister ship of the Australian-Oriental Line's steamer Changsha on the Melbourne-Sydney-Hongkong service from the early 1890s until 1925. My great-grandfather travelled on both for his visit to Ou Saek (1896-97). These ships were replaced by the Taiping and the Changte at the end of 1925.
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Post by lolly on Aug 6, 2013 3:51:38 GMT -5
Thank you Brad. I had seen the SMH article but have had no luck so far with the other names mentioned in the article.
I did also wonder about the possibility of the ship named as being Andrew's vessel of arrival possibly being the Taiyuan. Unfortunately I have still not been able to find any record of him being either passenger or crew on any vessel ..... but I will keep searching!
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 6, 2013 9:35:04 GMT -5
lolly, Brad was right about Tai Yuan being the correct name. I myself came to Sydney on MV Changsha, a sister ship to the Tai Yuan of a later era.
Susan Pang is a very, very lovely person. I know her casually for many long years. I also spoke to King Fong, Chinatown's best known identity, on the phone today. He recalls two Pang fellows, all with a Hung given name. One operated the Modern China Cafe, but not sure if any one of the two was of interest to you. From phonetic spelling, I could probably work out what Chuck Fay is in Cantonese. It is a valuable clue.
The person Susan referred to was probably Norman Lee. Norman was born in Dixon St. In his youth, he was sent to China for Chinese education. Thus, he was versed in both Chinese and English. The Lees and Pangs jointly owned the building which housed The Hingara and Kwong War Chong 廣和昌. KWC was the favourite hang out of Chungshan people.I used to remit money to Hong Kong and China through it, and Noman was the person who facilitated the transactions. Norman also used to do the tax returns for those who could not read English. It was a good second income tax free.
Even on retirement, Norman still liked to come out to Dixon St., a place he knew so well and had such long association with. Whenever I was in Dixon St. I used to look for him. I had one long conversation with him, and walked with him slowly to the railway station, sometime before his passing. I think all the old timers are gone, Dixon St. and Chinatown now does not have a soul any more. It is just a commercial and tourism hub. Douglas
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Post by lolly on Aug 6, 2013 21:47:53 GMT -5
Douglas, I am so excited to read your posts that give me a little insight to the times of Andrew! I will be seeing my uncle tomorrow (in country Victoria) and I am certain that he will be equally enthused and delighted. I am attaching a copy of a letter that I sent to the Sydney Chinese Masonic Society after locating Andrew's grave. It contains pretty much all the known details that we have about Andrew. Godfrey Mar of the CSM was kind enough to contact me in response to the letter, and he was able to share some memories he had of Andrew as an accomplished Lion Dancer with the CMS team. While he was unable to find details of Andrew's membership registration, he did provide me with the village, city and province and the chinese characters (as per original post). He also suggested that Andrew may have transferred from the Melbourne branch of the CMS. I will follow that up, although my total lack of knowledge of cantonese may prove to be a hindrance. However, where there is a will ... there is a way! We have no details regarding the pictures of Chines Opera (?) other than that Andrew appears in them. That too is a fascinating mystery to us. I look forward to any further gems that you may have to offer. Thank you. Lolly. Letter to CMS 2.docx (755.29 KB)
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 7, 2013 7:29:00 GMT -5
lolly, perhaps you'd like to know a little of your ancestral village. Like much of South China, the village is changed beyond recognition. It is no longer the rustic small rural community that it once was in your grandfather's time. It probably has a large internal migrant population, which outnumbers the locals. The last time I set foot there was in 2006. I didn't go inside the village, instead my party was at the big open air market which has many fixed permanent stalls and mobile ones. Small vendors would put their merchandise on the ground. I could see many of China's minority nationals there, resplendent in their traditional dresses, selling traditional arts and crafts, the obvious ones were the Tibetans and Uyghur Moslem people. I liked the nuts and dried fruit on sale.
See it for yourself soon. 象角 is the Pang's spiritual home.
To our regular contributor and frequent visitor to the mainland tyuti1668, have you been to 象角 lately? Can you tell us more?
You put it so well in writing to the CMS that I could not see any reason for anyone not to extend help your way. As I have said, I have two personal names and the village to go on, I am sure I can make headways. It all depends on if an intact genealogy record is saved from Mao's Red Guards. I can't see both your great grandfather and grandfather not having their names recorded. It would be a bonus if I could find family links as well. November can't come soon enough.
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Post by lachinatown on Aug 7, 2013 11:52:50 GMT -5
Xiangjiao 象角村, Zhongshan 中山市 map
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Post by helen on Aug 8, 2013 3:00:07 GMT -5
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Post by lolly on Aug 9, 2013 0:56:54 GMT -5
Again, thank you Douglas. I saw my uncle yesterday and he is as excited and enthusiastic about what we have learned so far already as I am. He is, of course, only sorry that we did not start our search many years ago. He is finding the snippets about Andrew's ancestral village very interesting. I have introduced him to the Chinese Genealogy pages so that he can keep in touch with all that is discussed here. Please let us know anything that we need to do to contribute to the success of your November trip.
As I mentioned, we unfortunately have no other sources for any siblings or ancestors for Andrew other than Pang Chuck Fay and Kong Lau ( I have asked some friends from my Tai Chi session if they can help to translate the names into Chinese - they will come back with their efforts next Friday).
I wondered if there was any possibility that Norman Lee would have kept records of remittances he helped organise back to China, and if so, whether it would be possible to discover if Andrew made any remittances, but more importantly, who he may have made them to? - possible names of relatives back in China? Is this an area that could be followed up?
Did you look at the Chinese Opera pictures attached in my CMS letter? I was thinking perhaps I should start a new thread with them to see if anyone recognises anything about them. I would be thinking that they were taken in Sydney around 1930s onwards.
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Post by lolly on Aug 9, 2013 0:59:16 GMT -5
Thank you lachinatown. This gives a great base to start forming an idea of where Andrew came from.
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