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Post by lolly on Aug 9, 2013 1:00:34 GMT -5
Thank you Helen. I will certainly check the site out and see what it may have to offer.
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Post by tyuti1668 on Aug 9, 2013 6:48:49 GMT -5
To our regular contributor and frequent visitor to the mainland tyuti1668, have you been to 象角 lately? Can you tell us more? I don't visits 象角 "proper" recently because don't had ANY connection from there. However i'm quite familiar /w the nearby "Lee" village. Uncle's house is in "village end / near the hill". He used had a en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarias_gariepinus farm around "岚霞基" b4 stroke. That species is BLOODY horrible (their feed / Need "electric" to harvest the clever one that hides in mud hole ...)
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 9, 2013 8:33:38 GMT -5
lolly, finding the village is the easy part. It is not in some backwater. I think there is also a bus interchange at the village. The #10 bus which I catch every time I am in China terminates there.
Don't go to the trouble of asking your Tai Chi friends for a matching name to Chuck Fay. They'll probably come to the same conclusion as the one I have in mind, ie.卓輝. Kong Lau is too vague to be of help. I now have Chuck Fay and Andrew's Chinese name, they might just do. The most important aid is a photo, any vintage, showing Andrew with his siblings or anyone at all from the village. If there is one, then you can scan and post, whoo hoo, Bob's your uncle.
Now, let's get a little personal. When I, and my team introduce ourselves to the folks in the village, I have to say I am on a mission to learn more about Andrew on behalf of his grandchild. I must know a bit more about you. Are you a grandson or granddaughter? Speaking the same dialect and coming from the same county would go a long way in easing ourselves in, I do need to put things into perspective ie. who is the interested party?
If you can get in touch with Susan, ask her about Norman's transaction records if they existed. It is a long shot. Kwong War Chong is now re-named Live Arts and Crafts, and opens late in the day. ( The original classic Chinese shop signage in gold characters on a black background was stolen some thirty years ago.) I walked past it last Wednesday, but it wasn't open. I can try again. I am sure Andrew must have made remittances over the years.
The opera photos are really, really old. I can't think of any one person who could identify the participants. The oldest person I know of is Arthur Gar Lock Chang, who came out in the 1930s as a teenager. I doubt he could shed light on the people in the photos.
This is for our China hand tyuti1668: Is there a bus interchange at 象角. My memories of the place are fuzzy.
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Post by lolly on Aug 17, 2013 6:20:23 GMT -5
Douglas, thank you again for your responses. I have been busy trying to get all my ducks in a row to try and add to the information that I already have. I have written again to Susan Pang and am hoping to maybe meet with her at the end of September. In the pursuit of any possible other pictures of Andrew, my uncle and I are arranging to meet with some cousins of mine in northern NSW who may have had contact with our grandfather. We are planning to return to Melbourne via Sydney, and if Susan and/or Godfrey Mar are available, we would love to meet with them to hear any tales that they may recall regarding Andrew's life.
Re the pictures of Andrew in Chinese opera costume, I was hoping not so much to identify anyone in the photo, but rather try and learn about the actual group, venue or period involved. I think I will start a new thread with the pictures asking if anyone can help in that regard. You never know!
How much background detail would you like with regard to myself and Andrew's family? I am the second daughter of Andrew's first born son, also Andrew, and my name is Laraine. I am happy to send you a more detailed summary of Andrew's family if that would be helpful to you. Both my sisters and several cousins who know that I am researching this branch of the family history are also very very intrigued and interested in learning all that we can about our chinese heritage. There is a good deal of excitement about your kind offer to help us in this endeavour.
Roll on November!
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 17, 2013 7:48:51 GMT -5
Hi Laraine, if I may call you by your name. I know your gender and that is all I want to know. At least I can tell the folks in the village Andrew's granddaughter wants to know. I called China on the phone last night, my village brother confirmed for me your ancestral village hosts two family names, that of Pang 彭 and Yuen 阮. That explains why I used to see a few of the Yuens at The Hingara and KWC 廣和昌. A very well known actress in the pre-War years 阮玲玉 was hailed from your ancestral village. Our members from Hong Kong and China would certainly know of her.
I don't know who Godfrey Mar is. Do you know Gary Mar and his father? Gary got in touch with me out of the blue in April. I did know his father about fifty years ago. They,too, want to know their village better. Gary's father Jimmy, now in his 80s, came out when he was a boy. But he retained his language skill, and can write. I pmomised them I'll do a search for them back in their village. I also invited them to join me in China. I have the right people to guide them to their village.
On August 26, I'll be attending a Chungshan (our county) Society Father's Day luncheon. I'll ask the old timers on that day, see what information I can glean from them re-your grandfather. BTW not all old folks are old timers, some are recent arrivals. But I do know the true oldies, because I am becoming one myself. Susan knows me well by sight, she may or may not know my name. Most people call me by my family name. I hope to see her on Monday, August 26. Douglas
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Post by tyuti1668 on Aug 18, 2013 6:47:37 GMT -5
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Post by lolly on Aug 20, 2013 2:31:59 GMT -5
Hi Douglas. You most certainly may call me Laraine. On the subject of names. I am assuming that Andrew is not my grandfather's given name. I was wondering if he assumed that name in Hong Kong perhaps before coming to Australia. On one of his registration forms, it gives the date of his entry into the "Commonwealth" as September 1889, but he did not arrive in Australia until 1900. Is it probable that he would have gone to Hong Kong first for a period? Still on names, if it is not impertinent, may I ask if Douglas is your birth name, and if not how you came to be "Douglas"?
Re Godfrey Mar - he is the contact I was given at the Chinese Masonic Society in Sydney, and he has been very kind and helpful. He told me that Andrew had sponsored him into the Society when he was a young man, and he was acquainted with through the Lion Dancing troupe. I am hoping to maybe meet with him at the end of September.
I do not know of Gary Mar at all.
I do hope you get the opportunity to see Susan Pang on 26th August. I will be interested in any relevant feedback that arises from that event. I very much appreciate the enquiries and efforts you are making on my behalf. Laraine.
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 21, 2013 7:04:49 GMT -5
Hi Laraine, I don't think anyone in the village would know who Andrew Pang was. I have his name in Chinese and that is all that matters. If you had an old photo of him with other family members or villagers, that would be a clincher. What about his siblings, can you find out their names, even in phonetic spelling like Chuck Fay? It would be great to find the China-side of your family and the ancestral home.
As to Douglas, my Anglicised name: I arrived in Sydney in 1961. Back then, if you are not white Anglo-Saxon, you must be a wog, dago or ching chong. My Chinese name is a mouthful, it would make things worse for me in school with racial taunts. People expected me to have a name like Peter, John, Ken, David,Frank and so on. I was confused, so I wrote to my teacher in Hong Kong, and he came up with Douglas. The name now appears in all my documents like my naturalisation paper, passport, driver's licence, bank accounts etc.
I may know Godfrey Mar of CMS 致公堂 by sight but not by name. I do know the president Stephen Wong but not well. He is a younger man than me, and has not been in Australia as long as I have. I wish I had join the Society back in the '60s.
At the luncheon next Monday, I'll be circulating amongst the members, looking for Susan and other Pang members from your village, and putting my questions to a few of the knowledgeable old timers. Watch this space. Douglas
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Post by lolly on Aug 24, 2013 8:21:27 GMT -5
Yep ..... I can do "space watching"!
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 26, 2013 7:53:30 GMT -5
Laraine, I attended the Chungshan Society luncheon celebrating Father's Day today as planned. The first person I bumped into on the escalator was Susan. I put the question to her in no time at all.Yes, she could not tell me any more than what we already knew. Secondly, all remittance records were thrown out. It is a great pity because many universities would like to get hold of them for their archives, the Chinese Museum in Melbourne would certainly like to put them on display. The records would help us identify your grandfather's kin in China.
Quite a few people know Godfrey Ma, in fact her sister was in the party. It is obvious Godfrey is from our county or didtrict. He could not make it because he is now retired and living in the Gong. ( To our friends elsewhere, the Gong is Wollongong, the third ranking city in our state. It is called 烏龍崗 by the Cantonese.) I will give a photo report tomorrow. Douglas
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 28, 2013 9:52:57 GMT -5
The Father's Day luncheon on Monday, 26 August was well supported with over three hundred, mostly older people present. I was able to attend during my five hour plus break from work. I could combine work and a social on the same day. This is the stage before formal proceedings. The writing says Chungshan Society of Australia luncheon celebrating Father's Day. Volunteers provide entertainment on this same stage. There is also a one-man camera crew from the local Chinese pay TV station to record the highlights. Chungshan, like Sze Yup is part of the Pearl River Delta. It is the home to thousands of Chinese people overseas. I think it's a proud second only to Sze Yup in numbers. For members who are not familiar with Chungshan or Zhongshan (as the official Mandarin spelling) ;it is named after Dr. Sun Yat-sen. Dr. Sun is a universally admired figure, the revolutionary who led the way to overthrow the repressive and decadent Qing Dynasty. Dr. Sun had many names as it was the custom of his time. He is best known as Sun Yat-sen in the West. To the Chinese, he is always Sun Chungshan 孫中山, the name he used when he was in Japan. His other names in Chinese are 孫逸仙 (Yat-sen) 孫文 and 孫科. He will always be our best known son from the county. This is the menu: 1 Chicken and sweet corn soup. 2 Assorted roasts which include roast pork, duck, barbecue pork and jelly fish. 3 King prawn. 4 Pork rib. 5 Fish, two courses. 6 Vegie and mushrooms. 7 Shandong chicken. 8 Fried rice and plain rice. 9 Sweet soup. 10 Petite fours. 11 Fruit platter. Every father over seventy-five years of age receives a gift. I still have some way to go to make the list. There are six fathers over ninety years of age. They are receiving special attention. Each is presented with a red envelope and a box of moon cakes. Fay Chee, you can see how versatile the red packet is. Seated from left to right is Arthur Garlock Chang(鄭家樂.) Google his name, and you'll find many entries. I know Arthur well, we speak the same dialect. Arthur was an activist on many social and political issues. He is famously remembered as the fighter who fought for the Chinese seamen who were stranded in Australia during World War ll, the right to stay in the country. The seamen faced deportation after the war because of the White Australia Policy, even though they had contributed to the war effort. Arthur also worked tirelessly for the diplomatic recognition of China. Many years ago, he was rewarded by the Chinese Government as an invited guest, seated in the VIP stand for the National Day Parade at Tiananmen Square. Arthur is also an honorary distinguished Chungshan citizen, which means amongst other things, he can use the diplomatic channel for immigration and customs clearance when entering China. As far as I know, Arthur is the longest living Chinese emigrant, having arrived in Australia in the 1930s. He came as a student to join his father here. He quietly gave me a signed booklet of his verses on his experiences here. I am honoured indeed. Seated third from the left is Mr. Leong 梁新燦 whom I also know well. I actually know Mr. Leong's son before the father. Mr. Leong senior also came here to join his father when he was a young man. About two years ago, my wife and I were invited to his ninety-first birthday celebration dinner. Again, it was a great honour bestowed on me, for we are just compatriots from the same county. I look forward to our next yum cha lunch together. Laraine, these two old gentlemen, plus our former president Stanley Hunt, all old timers, they could not help me with my enquiry. Did you know you too, are of Chungshan ancestry? You are most welcomed to join us and celebrate in our future functions. There are plenty of English speakers. Fourth from the left is our current president. He is a very enthusiastic, energetic and effective leader. Seating fifth from the left is the oldest of them at ninety-eight years of age. It is a happy occasion for all. We share a kindred spirit in that we all call Australia home, and yet, we all have our common roots in a far away land called Chungshan in china.
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Post by FayChee on Aug 29, 2013 11:01:44 GMT -5
Hi Douglas, I have been away from the board for awhile....working on a project for my North Carolina cousins.
I am trying to catch up with everything now and really enjoyed reading about your Father's Day luncheon and all the nice photos you posted. Thanks for explaining about the many names of Mr. Sun Yat-Sen and the gentlemen with the Red Envelopes. What a nice celebration you had.
Fay Chee
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Post by lolly on Aug 29, 2013 23:30:10 GMT -5
Douglas, I am so enjoying all your posts. I am learning so many new things about chinese heritage in general, as well as my own in particular. I know so very little, but am finding that I want to understand so much more. The luncheon sounds like it was a wonderful occasion. Any opportunity to stay in touch with longtime friends and acquaintances, and revisit "memories" of times, events and actions of earlier periods should be seized and appreciated with great enthusiasm. I am certain that I am not the only "reader" who is very grateful for the way that you share your experiences and knowledge with us all. Even though we did not learn anything new specifically about my grandfather, it was great to "meet" other identities from his time and county. I will continue to pursue any other possible sources that could provide any further links to Andrew's kin in China. The remittance records possibility was a long shot ..... but nothing lost by asking! I will keep following up on any similar "longshots" as they pop into my head! Thank you once again for all that you have done to help me out .... and for broadening my "chinese awareness". Laraine
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Post by douglaslam on Aug 30, 2013 8:59:44 GMT -5
Laraine, It's about time you discovered more of your heritage. Come and join us in our many functions throughout the year. There is the Chinese New Year banquet, always filled to the rafters, the Ching Ming cemetery visit to Rookwood where your father is buried,( see my link,) Mother's and Father's Day luncheons, are the main events. Read Fay Chee's story of discovery, she started from zero, and is now completely engrossed in learning about just everything. Fay Chee is an inspiration to all. siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1609/ching-ming-sydney This is our Society's annual cemetery outing. It is a significant date in our calendar. Take a look at photo #15, the old lady with tinted fair hair. That's Ruth Chong, a very lovely person. She is an ABC, and older than your father. Just make your first appearance, people will extend to you a warm welcome. Come meet Susan, your name sake, you both are orginiated from the same village. BTW, the public monument shown in my photos has undergone a makeover, and looks very different now, as I discovered earlier in the year. You may want to put your grandfather's photo on the monument (at a cost), so that he would not be forgotten, and be honoured at Ching Ming each year. Douglas
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Post by lolly on Sept 7, 2013 7:48:33 GMT -5
Hi Douglas
Thank you again for your very informative responses. I have really enjoyed checking out your Ching Ming entries, and have also been giving the wikipedia a bit of a thrashing reading up on assorted connections to the Pearl River Delta and its history and inhabitants.
It would be something to aim for to join in the Chungshan Society functions. I am however a Melbourne girl, so it would require a bit of forward planning and juggling to attend. I have been to Rookwood Cemetery and found my grandfather's grave a few years ago. I recall being quite taken by the pavilion there. Thank you for your detailing of how it came to be. I am hoping to take my uncle to visit his father's grave when we come though Sydney at the end of September. As it happens, my great grandfather (of Irish descent) is also buried there.
So much to take in .... but very keen to keep working at it all. Laraine.
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