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Post by Doug 周 on Oct 9, 2014 14:14:10 GMT -5
Don't forget, I can't read Chinese. I just compare the characters like a Rorschach. Is there the word Cha In among the villages?
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 9, 2014 15:01:46 GMT -5
corrected Coordinates:
Fung Fau Heung (豐阜鄉) Cha Sai (茶西) 22.510297,113.529704 Fung Fau Heung (豐阜鄉) Cha Tung (茶東) 22.512716,113.53426 Fung Fau Heung (豐阜鄉) Ho Chung (濠涌) 22.520525,113.544985
Fung Fau Heung (豐阜鄉) Nam Tong (南塘) 22.519098,113.537496
Fung Fau Heung (豐阜鄉) Po Shan (莆山) 22.513271,113.527951
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Post by louiecs on Oct 9, 2014 15:47:41 GMT -5
I am sure this is it. Thanks for all your help!
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Post by louiecs on Oct 9, 2014 16:07:03 GMT -5
Doug: Now that I know the correct Chinese characters, I think the 1st village, 茶西, is there also, just below the two characters you have marked with the red box. Oops, lachinatown is way ahead of me!
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 10, 2014 0:12:54 GMT -5
We need to find out what is "Cha In". There is another village Cha Yuan 茶园 in that area.
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Post by louiecs on Oct 10, 2014 12:00:22 GMT -5
My mother's cousin visited the village years ago. I have asked her the name of the village, but she doesn't know. She said her brother knew (who also went on the trip), but he has since passed away. There were several others on that trip and if she can get hold of one of them and they remember the name she will let me know.
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Post by Doug 周 on Oct 10, 2014 12:28:05 GMT -5
louiecs,
Out of curiosity, what are you planning to do with the information? Are you planning a visit, archiving information, or searching for your genealogy roots?
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Post by louiecs on Oct 11, 2014 10:26:10 GMT -5
All of the above, though I won't be making a trip for a few years. We are going to China next year with friends on a sightseeing trip (and river cruise). But, I don't want a visit to the villages to be a side trip if I am to get real value out of it. So, sometime after that we are planning on a family trip to visit ancestral villages (both on my mother's side (Chun) and my husband's (Louie). I know that my husband's village has documentation on his family's lineage dating back to its migration from north Central China some 800 years ago - at least documentation of the males. I have the last 11 generations. My mother (a Chun) believes our Chun village has something similar.
Our Chun family history has nearly been lost. My mother's generation was not interested in knowing its roots, but assimilating into American culture. But, I was able to interview two of my uncles before they passed away and my mother who is still living. I am doing this for my children and future generations. I might write a book. I did that for my Dad's side of the family (German descent) and they really value it to pass down to their children and grandchildren. Researching the German side was easier, relatively speaking. Many of the Church records of Europe are now in the Mormon library, and as you suggested, I have been able to send for them on microfiche and copy them. Plus, I can decipher Old German a little more easily than Chinese characters.
I appreciate your efforts to document Chinese immigrant origins. There is very little out there compared to immigrants of European descent. I have gleaned about as much as I can from this end (personal interviews, census reports, ship records, etc.). I think the missing pieces of information exist, but they are in China. So, it is important that I know how to find the village!
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Post by Doug 周 on Oct 12, 2014 9:29:27 GMT -5
China is changing fast and furious. Consider commissioning field work for your genealogy before all the fields and villages are paved over by high rises. Elders are aging and dying, and migrant workers from other parts of China are moving in, forever changing the composition of the population. Separate the ancestral village visit from genealogy work. Frequently a first visit to the homeland will result in a time crunch as you try to activate a networks of elders and knowledgeable people to identify your heritage. Consider the recommendations on the Forum about commissioned fieldwork.
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Post by louiecs on Oct 13, 2014 19:34:17 GMT -5
Perhaps I will do that; though the answer to our family's most pressing question probably will not be found in China. My grandfather was born in Kailua, Honolulu, Hawaii. Yet his mother lived in China. When he was around 4 or 5 years old (1898) he traveled to China with his father because "his mother in China was ill." That is a direct quote from him as he told the story to his children years later. His father had been in Hawaii for 10 years (1888 - 1898) and this was his first return trip to China. If his mother lived in China then how was he born in Hawaii? Perhaps she lived in Hawaii for a period of time, but returned to China after his birth. But why would she leave a young child behind? The question our family has is whether the mother in China was his birth mother, and if not, who was. My grandfather did not look Han Chinese though he did look Asian. What was he? Some relatives are thinking he might be part Hawaiian. My cousins have been to the County Records Office in Honolulu and have been unsuccessful in finding any information on his birth mother. One of my cousins just did a DNA test and we are awaiting the results. Perhaps it will reveal something about our ethnic ancestry.
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Post by Doug 周 on Oct 13, 2014 20:30:40 GMT -5
If you can afford it, consider doing multiple persons because of the randomness of genetics. Your most conclusive and cost effective strategywould be to test the daughters of female ancestor in question. Follow down the female lineage and the m-DNA barely changes with each generation. Unlike the autosomal DNA. Check our DNA section.
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Post by louiecs on Oct 16, 2014 11:07:01 GMT -5
lachinncatown: I am 99.999% sure my great-grandfather was from Cha Sai. Question: Could "Cha In" and "Cha Yuen" be the same? My mother talks about various Chun relatives that she calls Uncle, aunt, cousin, etc. She is not sure of the exact relationship, only that they all came from the same village. I have scrutinized the ship records. They cite as residence in China or of residence of closest relative in China as either "Cha In" or "Cha Yuen." I am thinking these two village might be the same place, but spelled differently by immigration officials. Thank you!
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Post by louiecs on Oct 16, 2014 12:00:36 GMT -5
Doug: We have no knowledge of any daughters of my great-grandmother. My grandfather never mentioned any siblings and we are sure there are none in the U.S.
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 16, 2014 14:11:48 GMT -5
louiecs, since Cha Yuan 茶园 is on some maps, then your "Cha Yuen" is the same. And since the article map said Cha In is divided into two, then those two villages made up of Cha In. Just don't know what the "In" Chinese character is. All these three villages on the map are located in the general area. These are your villages. It appear famous for tea production. A park is dedicated there. I read where a factory is located there.
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Post by Doug 周 on Oct 16, 2014 17:34:42 GMT -5
Maybe douglaslam or tyuti1668 can indicate how 茶园 is pronounced in the local Lungdu dialect and give a Lungdu phonetic spelling. I assume that is the dialect your elders spoke. Regarding the autosomal DNA testing, a negative for Hawaiian does not rule out your hypothesis. A positive would be most helpful. Similar to how the ABO blood type can only rule out paternity, not rule it in.
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