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Post by tyuti1668 on Oct 16, 2014 23:29:54 GMT -5
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Post by louiecs on Oct 17, 2014 17:43:44 GMT -5
tyuti1668, I don't quite understand what you are saying. My ancestors spoke Nam Long, a Min dialect. Are you saying if a Min-dialect speaker said "Cha Yuen" it would sound like "Cha In" to a Cantonese speaker (or English speaking immigration official)?
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Post by louiecs on Oct 17, 2014 18:44:17 GMT -5
lachinatown: Can you help me with the Chinese characters of another village, Jo Bu Tao? It is #5 on James Chun's map. I have included the map here again so you don't have to go back to page 1 of this thread to find it. My other great-grandfather (my grandmother's father) was from this village. His name was Mon Den Soon (Sin). I could not find it in your village database. Thank you!
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Post by tyuti1668 on Oct 18, 2014 0:36:25 GMT -5
tyuti1668, I don't quite understand what you are saying. My ancestors spoke Nam Long, a Min dialect. Are you saying if a Min-dialect speaker said "Cha Yuen" it would sound like "Cha In" to a Cantonese speaker (or English speaking immigration official)? ZS accent is different from Cantonese (3 counties) speaker. --- Jo Bu Tao = 左步頭 --- douglaslam siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1181/excellent-adventures-china?page=54 is the guy that visits various ZS villages . He may take some photo about the area.
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 18, 2014 0:41:10 GMT -5
It is hard to read louiecs, but I think it is 左步头 (simplified characters, same as on map) (now just Zuo Bu) located at 22°30'22"N 113°32'56"E. It doesn't show on map, but the roads and school has this name.
[Looks like tyuti1668 beats me by few minutes, lol]
From the official site: Zuobu Village in Nanlang Town is a well-known ancient village in Zhongshan. Zuobu Village is the home of many celebrities such Ruan Lingyu, a famous actress, Ou Chu, a revolutionist, and Ou Gengxiang, Superintendent of Guangdong-Wuhan Railway in the late Qing Dynasty. Zuobu Village also has close connection with Sun Yat-sen.
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Post by Doug 周 on Oct 18, 2014 4:02:11 GMT -5
...園= LiNKIN is the pronunciation from Min speaking brother trying to say Yue .. louiecs let me be so forward and try to interpret what tyuti1668 is saying. I always find his post cryptic but full of information. The reason I interject into this thread, despite my lack of Chinese language skills, is that both of my parents have strong roots from Zhongshan (ZS) 園 is the traditional way to write the character in question. 园 is the simplified script. The LINK has this URL hidden and clickable: postimg.org/image/em5rkp6h5/So in summary, 'In' is the local phonetic pronunciation of the village in question. I wish I knew how to use this website. Neither of my parents were literate and I would like to have known how certain names were pronounced in the local ZS dialect.
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Post by louiecs on Oct 19, 2014 12:12:50 GMT -5
I thank all of you for educating me, and for your valued assistance in locating my ancestral villages.
I hope you can help me with two more villages (please); they are my husband's ancestral villages. This is a little embarrassing. My husband, his brother and father visited their Louie ancestral village in 2005. My husband and his brother had not been there since the early 1960's and his father since the mid 1950's. They hired a car and driver in Guangzhou and traveled by road and ferry to get there. In the end they got lost and had to call my father-in-law's cousin to come find them and lead them to the village.
The Louie village is maoping and is near Taishan. My husband's sister-in-law sent me this as the location of the village: 中國 廣東 台山 水步 毛蓮鄉 茅坪村 福隆里. When I punch it into Google Maps it takes me to several locations around Taishan City. I know this is wrong. maoping is still a rural village. My husband's mother's maiden name was Lau and her village is 水坑崗. The two villages are near each other. I might have found them, but a) the location on Google maps for maoping is the middle of a mountain and b) when I showed my husband the nearby villages on Google Earth he said they were not maoping. So, at this point I am uncertain of my findings.
I thank you again for all the help. Honestly, these are the last two!
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 19, 2014 13:34:39 GMT -5
22.343249,112.846069 (Both villages are close by: Maoping and Shuikenggang)
Do you know why 福隆里 was added to the address line 中國 廣東 台山 水步 毛蓮鄉 茅坪村 福隆里?
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Post by louiecs on Oct 19, 2014 17:53:39 GMT -5
Thanks, that is the location I found, but it points to the middle of a forest or mountain. When we look at the villages on Google Earth near that location, my husband says they are not his village. I think he just has to go back and look some more at the surrounding villages. This has to be the location. I don't know why his sister-in-law added Fu Long Lane (福隆里). I will email her and ask her.
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Post by louiecs on Oct 19, 2014 18:35:44 GMT -5
I emailed your question to my husband's sister-in-law (she is on the East Coast and I am on the West Coast), but haven't heard back from her yet. My husband has looked at the location for maoping again. He thinks it is the correct general area. He recognizes the proximity of the mountains and the dam, but has not yet identified the actual village. He wants to know what mapping program you are using. Thanks!
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 20, 2014 9:24:51 GMT -5
Mostly google map, but look at different ones including Chinese ones. The problem is it shifts when going from map to satellite view. You will notice the roads on top of the photo do not match. In your husband's area, the road is shown on top of water. The roads on the east side do not match at all, very hard to tell. The other problem is not all maps show all the villages and it depends on where they place the labels. Very hard to use when the labels disappear from different views.
BTW: We are from that area. Also Gary Locke's family originated from 中國 廣東 台山 水步, with Kut Lung or Jilong (吉龍 / 吉龙) as the village, about 12,000 feet from Maoping.
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Post by louiecs on Oct 20, 2014 12:40:19 GMT -5
That is interesting that your ancestors are from that area and Gary Locke's are so nearby. My husband's ancestor settled in Maoping in the 13th century. The story that has been handed down in our family (for nearly 800 years) is three Louie (Lei) brothers were given lands in south China for their service to the emperor in trying to defend the empire against the Mongols. One was Da Koon Louie (my phonetic spelling) who was from Kaifeng. He was given the lands in and around Maoping. His descendants have occupied the village ever since, though many descendants have immigrated to other countries or moved to the cities. I suspect you have similar stories in your family.
My husband and I were looking at some of the photos he took in 2005 when he was there to help him pinpoint which village in the satellite view is his. He is going to try Bing to see if it produces better results than Google Maps.
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 21, 2014 22:34:46 GMT -5
Excellent Louiecs that you have the information for 800 years. We are just too dumb to do that. We only have village names and names of relatives in the USA. Who knows about the ones left in China? We have Louie's in our family, but don't know the name of their village.
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Post by dougchanchsa on Jul 5, 2020 10:41:51 GMT -5
Hi: At the risk of repeating advice (as I've not read the entire thread) the names "Cha In" and "Cha Yuen" are the same. The former name is probably the Heung sahn wah pronunciation. I saw the ancestral village 茶園村 in 1981 before Zhongshan county developed paved roads and hotels with golf courses, etc. As the elders in SF used to say, the west side of the village was definitely the less affluent of the two parts, the eastside being wealthier. In fact, one can walk from the westside family shrine at one end of the hamlet to the other, i.e., Cha Sai to Cha Dung (or Cha Xi to Cha Dong 茶東) and vice versa. Thus, the coordinates given for Cha Doong (Cha Dong) should be sufficient to pinpoint and/or get you into the locale of Cha Sai (Cha Xi) which apparently remains too insubstantial to be found on Google maps.
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