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Post by sgcvn69 on Aug 17, 2022 11:56:12 GMT -5
Hey, I was hoping someone could help me find the Zupu/Jiapu for my fam. Hoping it is digitized anyway! My aunt says our village is 莲溪里 and surname is 胡. I was told my grandfather's sister still lived there, but I don't know if she is still alive. I have had no luck on mychinaroots.com with the village name. I don't read much Chinese, but I can speak Cantonese so any help would be appreciated! I've always wanted to see this ever since my grandfather told me about it! We apparently still have a house there, however, squatters were living in it the last time he visited. Thanks!
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Post by gckimm on Aug 20, 2022 13:10:48 GMT -5
Hi sgcvn69: It took quite a bit of searching, but I think your village is now located in Ruxi Village, Baihe Town in the city of Kaiping: 开平市百合镇儒西村. However, I'm not sure if Lianxi Li 莲溪里 still exists as a separate small village or has been subsumed into Ruxi. There have been a lot of administrative boundary and name changes in the area in past decades, so it is very confusing. In the Village Database (http://villagedb.friendsofroots.org/search.cgi), which I believe has information from the 1930s, the village of Lianxi is listed as being located in the township of Ruliang: 儒良乡莲溪村, with the market of Baihe 百合圩. I believe your family belongs to what is known as the Ruliang branch of the Hu clan, which seems to be named after the place from which it originated (it seems to have been a village in ancient times). I have not been able to find any digital version of your genealogy; however, a clan member by the name of Hu Zhanghai has recorded the genealogy from the first to the 10th generation (sorry, all in Chinese) on this page: www.hszqw.com.cn/bbs/simple/?t295_2.html. The clan in the area appears to be quite active in honoring their ancestors. I found an article about clan members paying their respects at the grave of founding ancestor Liangfu in Ruxi during the Chongyang Festival in 2017 but I can't post the link here for some reason (problems with certain Chinese websites?). Here is a 2019 article from the Baihe Government website about the opening of the new ancestral temple dedicated to founding ancestor Liangfu: www.kaiping.gov.cn/bhzrmzf/qqqx/content/post_687305.html. I think this is in the town of Baihe. A genealogy certainly exists. But unless you can find a clan member outside of China who has a copy of the genealogy, you will need to go to China or arrange to have someone in China obtain a copy of the genealogy for you. If you are able to use My China Roots, they will send someone to do your research for you and bring back a copy. Good luck! Greg |
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Post by jeremychin on Aug 21, 2022 12:03:32 GMT -5
I believe I was able to find the village on Google maps. What Greg stated seems to be pretty accurate. 22.3057585, 112.5467459 But according to Baidu maps , it looks like the village does exist under that name, and there is a Lin Kai 1 and 2.  
- Jeremy |
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Post by sgcvn69 on Aug 23, 2022 15:53:02 GMT -5
I believe I was able to find the village on Google maps. What Greg stated seems to be pretty accurate. 22.3057585, 112.5467459 But according to Baidu maps , it looks like the village does exist under that name, and there is a Lin Kai 1 and 2.
- Jeremy I plugged in the GPS coordinates into Google maps and it doesn't appear to be the same location as confirmed by my aunt? I know there is more than one place with the same name. This is what I have for the village: goo.gl/maps/yXDFXJ8cXan6YFiS9 |
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Post by gckimm on Aug 24, 2022 15:22:06 GMT -5
Hi:
Try this location: 广东省江门市开平市赤坎镇小海管区莲溪村
This Lianxi/Lin Kai Village is in Xiaohai Administrative District, Chikan Town. Sorry, I don't know how to use Google maps very well, but on the map you linked it looks like there is a Xiaohai Village 小海村 near the village you are seeking. Maybe Jeremy can verify this for you.
I found nothing on the internet about the Hu clan in this particular village; however, I did see where the previously mentioned Baihe town was formerly part of Chikan town. My guess is that the Hu clan members there belong to the same branch of the Hu clan, the Ruliang branch, as the people in the other Lianxi Village.
Chinese geography is very confusing!
Greg
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Post by sgcvn69 on Aug 25, 2022 8:38:00 GMT -5
Hi sgcvn69: It took quite a bit of searching, but I think your village is now located in Ruxi Village, Baihe Town in the city of Kaiping: 开平市百合镇儒西村. However, I'm not sure if Lianxi Li 莲溪里 still exists as a separate small village or has been subsumed into Ruxi. There have been a lot of administrative boundary and name changes in the area in past decades, so it is very confusing. In the Village Database (http://villagedb.friendsofroots.org/search.cgi), which I believe has information from the 1930s, the village of Lianxi is listed as being located in the township of Ruliang: 儒良乡莲溪村, with the market of Baihe 百合圩. I believe your family belongs to what is known as the Ruliang branch of the Hu clan, which seems to be named after the place from which it originated (it seems to have been a village in ancient times). I have not been able to find any digital version of your genealogy; however, a clan member by the name of Hu Zhanghai has recorded the genealogy from the first to the 10th generation (sorry, all in Chinese) on this page: www.hszqw.com.cn/bbs/simple/?t295_2.html. The clan in the area appears to be quite active in honoring their ancestors. I found an article about clan members paying their respects at the grave of founding ancestor Liangfu in Ruxi during the Chongyang Festival in 2017 but I can't post the link here for some reason (problems with certain Chinese websites?). Here is a 2019 article from the Baihe Government website about the opening of the new ancestral temple dedicated to founding ancestor Liangfu: www.kaiping.gov.cn/bhzrmzf/qqqx/content/post_687305.html. I think this is in the town of Baihe. A genealogy certainly exists. But unless you can find a clan member outside of China who has a copy of the genealogy, you will need to go to China or arrange to have someone in China obtain a copy of the genealogy for you. If you are able to use My China Roots, they will send someone to do your research for you and bring back a copy. Good luck! Greg |
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Post by sgcvn69 on Aug 25, 2022 8:41:42 GMT -5
Hi: Try this location: 广东省江门市开平市赤坎镇小海管区莲溪村 This Lianxi/Lin Kai Village is in Xiaohai Administrative District, Chikan Town. Sorry, I don't know how to use Google maps very well, but on the map you linked it looks like there is a Xiaohai Village 小海村 near the village you are seeking. Maybe Jeremy can verify this for you. I found nothing on the internet about the Hu clan in this particular village; however, I did see where the previously mentioned Baihe town was formerly part of Chikan town. My guess is that the Hu clan members there belong to the same branch of the Hu clan, the Ruliang branch, as the people in the other Lianxi Village. Chinese geography is very confusing! Greg |
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Post by FayChee on Oct 9, 2022 2:12:01 GMT -5
Hi, Roy Chang found in his inherited documents, a booklet that appears to be his Zupu....he sent me the 1st page to see if I could tell by using the Google Translate App. I have spent hours on just 3 of the columns and it does seem to be his zupu, but Google Translate is very bad with hand-written traditional characters. Would anyone be able to give me a hand with this page? Thank you, Fay Chee     |
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Post by gckimm on Oct 9, 2022 14:09:51 GMT -5
Hi FayChee:
Yes, this is a page from a genealogy, showing the 23rd generation descendant of Jusou/Gook Sau 菊叟, a man named Zhong/Joong 忠, a.k.a. Xujing/Yook Geng 旭鏡 or Liquan/Lai Chuen 麗泉.
The Google translation does not help. What the page says is that Zhong was the second son of Shen/Sun 申 and that he was granted the title of xiuzhilang/sau jik long 修織郎. Then it says that Zhong was born in the year Ding Hai or 7th year of the Daoguang Emperor 道光丁亥七年, 7th day of the first month 正月初七 (February 2, 1827). The term "lishou 例授" means "granted by regulation" and I believe it refers to the Qing dynasty custom of granting titles to the ancestors of certain officials--even if they were no longer living. If you go backwards in the genealogy, you will probably find the person who was granted a title attached to an actual job.
Greg
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Post by FayChee on Oct 9, 2022 23:37:00 GMT -5
Thank you for the translation Greg. I will give this to Roy even though none of the names are familiar at this point. I think he said that he may be the 27th Generation from a handwritten chart that his relative made. Both of his parents and he was born in Hawaii. His mom is a Seto and dad is the Chang. He only knows his fathers name and Grandfather's name, which is why he is desperately trying to piece together a family tree.....everyone older has died already. This is what he said about that little book he found in the inherited papers....."There are 36 pages, the booklet is only 5” X 8” . The only characters I recognize are the numbers 1 thru 9 from the tiles of the “mah Jong” game. The booklet does not appear to have originated in Hawaii, as it was tucked in an envelop that came from Hong Kong. I did not see any characters that looked like the “Chang/Cheng” Chinese character that I am familiar with." So the book-Zupu remains a mystery. Here is a picture of the front cover and handwritten tree....does it look like he Gen 27?   |
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Post by gckimm on Oct 10, 2022 15:40:28 GMT -5
Hi FayChee:
If the English notes are correct, Roy is the 27th generation. As stated here, his father is Wai (not Wah) Kwock, his grandfather is Wah Siu, his great-grandfather is Kau 球 and his great-great-grandfather is.Joong. 忠.
The title page simply says “family tree” 家譜. It was compiled by a man with the surname Hong (or Kang in Mandarin) in 1984.
Yes, the surname Chang is not mentioned. That is because it is a family record and the family name is already understood,
Greg
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Post by FayChee on Oct 10, 2022 16:59:59 GMT -5
That is really great information Greg, now I feel more confident that the book is his family 'Chang' Zupu and not someone else's.
We can't thank you enough. I told Roy to take pictures of all the pages and save on a memory key or card so that it will be saved in case of fire or water damage.
So with that Chang side solved, I will get back to researching his maternal Seto side....
Thank you again for coming to our aid and for your generous kindness!
Fay Chee
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Post by FayChee on Oct 10, 2022 20:49:15 GMT -5
Greg, this may seem like a "I should know this" type of question, but both Roy and I are not sure if Kau and Joong are the given names or the generational names.....would it be Chang (Generational name) Joong, or Chang Joong (given name)  Chang (Generational name) Kau.............or Chang Kau (given name) Sorry (sad face emoji)  |
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Post by gckimm on Oct 11, 2022 13:56:12 GMT -5
Hi FayChee:
In the case of these two men, it appears that they have one character only for their given names: they are Chang Joong and Chang Kau. No other name is listed for them. They could have had another part to their names that is not recorded (and was not usually used by them) or they could have simply had one-character names, which are still common in China today. Most likely, these names were not part of the more formal names that utilized characters from the clan generation poem.
This reply also gives me the chance to correct something I said previously. The title “granted by regulation” was given on the merits of Joong himself and refers to a position he actually held. There was a different term used to designate titles given to one’s ancestors.
Greg
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Post by FayChee on Oct 12, 2022 8:19:08 GMT -5
Thank you for clarifying my question Greg! So now he is searching for a place to have the 36 pages translated. I saw that on My China Roots, they offer this service for a price, but I wonder if anyone has used them and if they are good?
Fay Chee
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