ancient genealogies

[Anthony Adolph]

I am researching how far back family trees can go in different countries. I understand that some family trees in China can go back over 2,000 years. Does anyone know of examples of this?
Besides finding examples, I am also interested in how accurate such family trees are, and also how it is that China, almost uniquely in the world, has such ancient lineages.

[Anthony Adolph]

I should add that my e-mail address for anyone wanting to contact me is [e-mail]

[Woodson]

Anthony said:

I am researching how far back family trees can go in different countries. I understand that some family trees in China can go back over 2,000 years. Does anyone know of examples of this?
Besides finding examples, I am also interested in how accurate such family trees are, and also how it is that China, almost uniquely in the world, has such ancient lineages.

My understanding is that the line from Confucius's is the owner of the longest continuous Chinese genealogy records. Given Confucius' position in Chinese society throughout the ages his descendants had always held respectful positions in society and royal court I would think the family's genealogy records, at least the main line, have to be accurate and transparent.

[Anthony Adolph]

Many thanks for your reply. I'm having trouble at the moment finding any pedigrees in English coming down from Conficius to the present day. Would you have any idea where I could find any? I'm also interested in seeing ancient pedigrees (in English) that are as (or almost) as old as his.
Very best wishes,

[David Wong]

I was in China a couple of weeks ago, and watched a program on education. On the show was a Professor Kung, who when was identified by people as being a direct descendant of Confucious, and the man made a very humble statement that "there are over 20,000 people claiming to be descendants of Confucious... I'm just a person who happens to share a surname with the great sage."

[helen]

Unfortunately during the cultural revolution the names on the walls of the memorial hall for my mother-in-laws village were destroyed. So I am trying hard to put together some names, but for her family can go back 5 generations. I guess other villages suffered the same fate. The memorial Hall had the names, and all new born were added to it.

[Henry]

Vancouver & Helen,

Please check "News" on Tom Genealogy ( mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/index.html )
for the latest on Confucius genealogy and the recent report on Chinese Family Names.

During the Cultural Revolution, there were family genealogies that survived because they were hidden and/or copies were held by family associations outside of China.

Henry

[David Wong]

Yes. Henry is correct.

When i first visited my ancestral village, the people there told me all ancestral tablets, genealogy etc were destroyed. And to my dissapointment, our ancestral hall was a sanitized recreational room with chickens running around.

On my subsequent visit, i probed about a bit more, and have located someone (from another village) who actually had names and other historic family facts. Although the tablets and names may have been destroyed, I am told that copies of family genealogy were kept by many people throughout the turmoil of the cultural revolution and even back during the Japanese invasion of China.

I am receiving a copy of this book upon my next trip back (next month) ...and i hope to make it available on-line or whatever.

[helen]

Am trying hard in NZ to get the names as far back as we can remember. Glad you have managed to locate some one with information of your family. It's just luck. But in saying that, let people know that you are researching. I have just been contacted by some one from the village I am researching, and he says he has been researching the same village for the last 30 years. The lucky thing is that he knows about the original sojourners who came in the 1890s.

[helen]

There are some people who will not share their information. I think that so long as it is not too personal, and no skeletons, then we should share the information we have. In that way, others can correct the dates, etc.

[helen]

www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=6463
For centuries, Chinese citizens honored their ancestors. They had religious ceremonies to pay homage to the dead. In fact, Ancestor Worship is a minority religion in mainland China.
All of this came to a halt in 1966 during the Cultural Revolution, when traditional customs were vilified as feudal dregs. Genealogy was denounced as a bourgeois activity in which one claimed to be "better" than other citizens because of family status at birth. Family records in Buddhist temples were destroyed, and all citizens were advised to forget their ancestry and to never write it down.
While living in China in the early 1980s, I found that most of the local citizens I talked to could recite their ancestry from memory for many generations. (They could do this only for their straight paternal line, however. They normally did not memorize the names of female ancestors.) However, such conversations were usually conducted quietly when others were not within hearing distance as the government still frowned on genealogy at that date.
The political climate in China has had many changes since those days, and genealogy is once again a favored activity. The New York Times recently ran an interesting article about the resurgence of genealogy in China. Reporter Chris Buckley interviewed Mr. Chi Yugao, a resident of Chi Village, a village of 700 people in Yongkang County in Zhejiang Province. Almost all the men in Chi Village share the surname of Chi.
Mr. Chi, 51, is updating a surviving set of his clan's history so that it will cover all 30 generations from 1132 to the present. "We must never forget or shame our ancestors," he said. "They made us who we are, and we have to remember them for it. If we don't do it now, the next generation will lose the links to their ancestors."
It is an interesting story about recovering information that was nearly lost. You can read the entire article here.
Note that you must be a registered user of the New York Times site before you can read the article. However, registration is free of charge. Fill out the form and click on "Click to Register" in order to gain access to this article and to many other articles that appear in the New York Times.
To discuss this story further on the message board for newsletter readers, go to www.RootsForum.com and click on "Message Board."

[helen]

Jia Pu (Chinese Genealogical Record): An Introduction

By Danny Boey, ChineseRoots.com More of this Feature
• Example of Jia Pu

In the history of the Chinese people, there are three important elements that are significant. They are China's history, the local gazette and a clan's genealogy. Amongst these three elements, genealogy has the longest history and is the most influential.
Jia Pu (translated as genealogy record), also known as Zu Pu, is a record of a clan's history and lineage. It documents the origins of the surname, the migration patterns of the clan, the family lineage, the ancestral biography, the story of the locality, etc.
The origin of Jia Pu spans many eras and has been found as early as the Shang Dynasty (1523-1028BC). The family trees of the clans then were written on turtle shells, cow bones and bronze. Prior to the invention of writing, Chinese genealogical information was recorded by tying knots on ropes. Objects such as miniature arrows, shoes, cradle, bronze coins, kneecaps of goats and pigs were tied to the knots to show the number of generations, number of members (male and female), etc. in a family. This information was also verbally passed on to the later generations. Such were the earliest forms of Chinese genealogical record.
The written "Jia Pu" contains entries about the migrations of the people and social evolution. It tracks the growth of the clan members by recording in detail their political, military and academic achievements. It also eulogizes the clan's ancestors and encourages the future generation to do worthy causes to maintain the good name of the clan.
A "Jia Pu" usually begins with the primogenitor that first settled or moved to a place and started his family there, and should end with the contemporary generation that draws up the genealogy. The intermediate ancestors are to be enumerated in between. The primogenitor's sons and descendents compose the first six generations and are tabulated on one form. The primogenitor's first-borne son and subsequent first-borne grandsons are listed vertically downwards on the right, while the brothers of the first-borne are listed laterally on the left. Descriptions of each generation are confined in relatively narrow, horizontal divisions of the form. These spaces contain information such as the ancestor's name and aliases, date of birth and death and official rank. The proceeding generations are recorded in a similar manner.
"Jia Pu" usually does not have prominent records of the women in the family. This is because in Chinese families greater emphasis is placed on the sons who will carry on the family name. When daughters marry, they are considered a part of their husband's family. Although their names are mentioned in both their family and in-law's Jia Pu, their significance are usually marginalized since they are unlikely to extend the family's lineage. The perception towards the objectives of Chinese genealogical research has tremendously changed overtime. Researchers are now studying Chinese genealogies as a supplement to other research areas such as social economic history, geographical history, history of law, population history, religion and culture, history of overseas Chinese, inheritance practices and biography of historical figures. Recent works in the field has dispelled the myth that Chinese genealogical research is only a mere pastime hobby for the amateur genealogist.

[cherrybomb]

My matrilineal family tree claims ancestry to one of the kings' sons of a dynasty dating back thousands of year. I forget which one though. My grandfather receives an updated package our Lau (Liu) family tree through some organization in China every year which our family tree (it's quite thick book (with thosands and thousands of names). I am, however, not on the family tree because my mother does not carry on the family name. I don't speak Chinese to my Grandfather very well...more or less Chinglish, hopefully I can find out where he gets this genealogy package from.

[norenxaq]

Hello:

Liu was the clan name of the Emperors of the Han Dynasty. So, if your claim is correct, this would be the dynasty you would be a descendant of