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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 21, 2009 11:27:29 GMT -5
Hi, I am looking for any information on my grandfather Chan Chin. He was a farmer living in Canton. My mother Chan Sok Chin was born there March 18, 1919. Thank you!
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Post by Henry on Jan 21, 2009 12:27:26 GMT -5
Hi jlizbeth, Welcome to our Forum. Romanized Chinese names are confusing because of the various differing and non-standard English romanization systems for the Chinese language. In order to help you, you need to provide the Chinese characters for the names of your grandfather, your mother, and your ancestral village. If these Chinese characters are not available form documents, letter envelopes, or from relatives - then you made need to take a digital photo of the gravestone for your grandfather and post it here on the Forum. To post an image, please refer to: siyigenealogy.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=comment&action=display&thread=421With this information, it may be possible to locate your ancestral village, family/clan genealogy book, and possibly any remaining relatives in your ancestral village. Henry
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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 21, 2009 13:17:36 GMT -5
Hi Henry, Thank you for your response. Unfortunately I do not have the chinese characters of my mother nor my grandfather. I have never met my grandfather or been to China. My mother left Canton at an early age & went to live in Shanghai. She met & married my father there, a scottish soldier. After the war, they lived in Hong Kong & eventually immigrated to Australia. My mother spoke very little about her family. She could not read or write so there were never any correspondence with her family. I believe my grandfather may have died shortly after the Communists took over in 1949 & my grandmother (I don't even know her name) may have died about 1954. I will try & contact my sister & see if she has anything that may have my mother's name in chinese characters. Is there a way to check a birth record in english with her name Chan Sok Chin? I do have a photo of her family taken in Canton. Where & how can I post this? Perhaps someone may recognize a face. That is my only hope! Thank you.
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Post by Henry on Jan 21, 2009 18:15:20 GMT -5
Hi jlizbeth,
Is your mother still alive and can she tell you the Chinese names of your grandfather and ancestral village? If not, hopefully, there might be some immigration documents for your mother when she emigrated to Australia that recorded the village where she born.
There are several members of this Forum that are very knowledgeable about government records for immigrants in Australia - perhaps they can advise you further. I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.
Henry
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Post by kerry on Jan 23, 2009 17:09:46 GMT -5
Is there a way to check a birth record in english with her name Chan Sok Chin? Probably not. It's seems to be practically impossible to reverse engineer the English sounds of a Chinese name correctly to Chinese characters. there might be some immigration documents for your mother when she emigrated to Australia that recorded the village where she born. Again, probably not. Depending on year, there are often few inbound immigration records and they would usually go no further than a province and "China". And if they did, it wouldn't have been done with a consistent transliteration system like Pinyin or Giles-Wade - it would have been the guess of a harried clerk. If she travelled out of country, there may be records called CEDT's but I can't see any for Chan Sok Chin. If she applied for Naturalisation there may also be records but again, these would be in the national Archive's search index.
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Post by helen on Jan 23, 2009 23:34:40 GMT -5
What dialect did your mother speak? Cantonese; Siyip? Did she have any Chinese friends in Australia? Did she belong to any Chinese organisations when she got older? Is there any Chinese Restaurant you frequented often? What part of Australia did she migrate to? All of these networks would help you to unravel a seemingly impossible task. There has to some traces of her in the records. Were there any cousins, relatives? Or was she there alone?
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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 24, 2009 8:05:14 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses. My mother spoke cantonese. She is deceased. She emigrated to Western Australia with my father who was scottish so all records were in english-saying she is from Canton, China. At that time there were very few chinese people living there in Perth. Most of her chinese friends are also deceased. She had little ties to any of her family after she left Hong Kong except for a few visits back to HongKong/China to visit some of her old friends. Her last visit was in 1989 & she was at Tienanmen Square when the riots broke out. She lost her passport & was so frightened by with the protesters & loosing her passport, she never went back to China or HK again. The Australia Ambassy had to issued her a new passport to get back to Australia. I am really at a loss, I wish I had taken an interest before she passed away in 2001. Anyway help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 24, 2009 8:14:14 GMT -5
Quick question-Would her marriage to my father in Shanghai be recorded in Chinese? I have her marriage certificate. They were married on March 29, 1943 in Shanghai, Haiphong Rd. Number 2 (my father was a POW in the japanese prison camp). Doubting the validity of the marriage, they married again in Hong Kong after the war, March 29, 1946.
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Post by helen on Jan 24, 2009 19:22:19 GMT -5
She sounds like a Chan from Zengcheng, but what was she doing in Shanghai? Some of the Chans came from the village of Sun Gaai (New Street)/ my Mother in Law came from the village of Hargee. Maybe a starting place could be there. You may be in luck, having the marriage certificate. www.mansell.com/pow_resources/camplists/list_2.htmlwww.captives-of-empire.com/ Shirt signed by Haiphong Road internees, now in the Imperial War Museum, London. On 5 November 1942 the Japanese kempeitai rounded up over 300 Allied nationals in Shanghai in the early morning hours. Many were prominent citizens, and were individuals who, because of their connections in the financial, political, and information spheres, had the potential to cause trouble for the Japanese. Considered POWs with the rank of sergeant by the Japanese, 382 eventually found themselves in the former barracks of the US Marine Fourth Regiment, Second battalion, at 372 Haiphong Road. Originally built for a wealthy Chinese family, the compound consisted of two large buildings and was utilized by the marines until their departure from the city in November 1941. Internees who survived the torture and degradations meted out by the kempeitai in Bridge House were then often sent to this camp; those interned here were also liable to be hauled off to Bridge House for further interrogation sessions. In one incident, internee William Hutton, formerly of the Shanghai Municipal police, was tortured to death there. The camp's inmates, all men, were moved north to Fengtai, near Peking, in June of 1945, under exceedingly difficult conditions. There, they lived in crowded, hellishly hot godowns (warehouses) until the end of the war.
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Post by helen on Jan 24, 2009 19:39:17 GMT -5
You may be able to get help from Greg Leck: Internee Contacts www.captives-of-empire.com/wst_page4.phpFollowing are China internees, and family of internees If you want to get in touch, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do. gregleck@epix.net Haiphong Road Bryce Babthingy (cousin of Mark King) Mick Cook (grandson of John Cook) Hilarie du Berrier Evangeline Ellingson (wife of Arnold Kiehn) Fred Ferguson (nephew of Zephra Briggs) Marigold Hogan (daughter of John Watson) JoJo Katem (daughter of Nicholas Katem) Bob King (son of Mark King) Shirley McIlvenny (daughter of Richard David McIlvenny) Tom Sheppard (nephew of Ron Sheppard)
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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 25, 2009 8:13:28 GMT -5
My mother was sent to Shanghai by her father to get an education. Instead of going to school, she used the money her father gave her on having a good time. That is why she could not read or write. Over the years she taught herself to read english and the only thing she could write was her signature in english. My sisters & I had to read everything to her & as none of my sisters could read or speak cantonese, everything was in english. I have been in touch with Greg Leck & several years ago I was in contact with Marigold Watson. My father after leaving the army was a Detective Sargeant in the Shanghai Municipal Police. I have also been in touch with Robert Bickers. I have found a lot of information on my father but can find nothing on my mother.
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Post by Henry on Jan 25, 2009 10:47:28 GMT -5
jlizbeth,
Are you able to contact any old friends of your mother in Hong Kong or any of the children of these friends? They may know the Chinese name of your ancestral village and county. If we know this - there is a good chance that we can find your family genealogy book and any relatives still living in your ancestral village.
Henry
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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 25, 2009 13:23:41 GMT -5
I have sent an email to my sister, I seem to recalled that she had once corresponded with a friend of my mothers. I have asked her if she still has the address of that person. She is also going to go through all the paperwork to see if there is anything written in chinese. She handled all of my mother's affairs after she went into the nursing home. I will let you know if she finds anything. I really appreciate everyone for responding to the my message! Thank you
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Post by twoupman on Jan 27, 2009 11:15:27 GMT -5
jlizbeth, Since your parents were married after WW2 in Hong Kong I suggest you get in touch with the government at www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/bdmreg/applybdm.htm and pay for a search. Chances are good they will have the marriage on record and there may be more information in it regarding your mother's name in Chinese. All this can be done online. As for her name Chan Sok Chin it may be this in Chinese 陳淑錢. In Cantonese it is pronounced Chahn (陳)(surname) Suhk (淑) (means pure) Chien (錢)(means money). The middle name is very popular among women, so I feel certain about it. The personal name is rather uncommon but not unusual. Anyway, that is my best guess.
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Post by jlizbeth on Jan 27, 2009 11:47:20 GMT -5
Thank you for your help. I would certainly check out the government link you gave me. I do have their Hong Kong marriage certificate in english-there are no chinese characters on it. I will let you know if I'm successful or not.
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