Help in translating information about my wife's ancestors
Nov 24, 2015 17:08:10 GMT -5
Post by fovisser on Nov 24, 2015 17:08:10 GMT -5
Introduction:
My name is Frank Visser. I'm living in the Netherlands. My wife is Vietnamese, but her great-grandfather was born in Guangdong, China. I've been tracing my wife's ancestors for several years. We've managed to collect information about the place of origin in China (a village near Puning, Guangdong), generation names and family tales.
This summer we went to the actual village in China and, with the help of locals, we managed to fine the connection with the Chinese branch of the family. I have quite a lot of information now, but I need some help with translation. I have an English translated version, but the translation is very poor. I hope this form can help me to improve the translation. I want to use this information to incorporate in my own version of a family tree book.
I'll add the article as an attachment for who's interested, but I will post it here section by section as translating the whole article at once is too much work.
《初稿》 越南华侨苏开振先生家族调查报告（初步认定）
Fovisser发来资料部分图片如下：
一、养鸭人故事中主角：日祖先生
日祖公，号（可理解为又名）：秉权，就是养鸭人故事中主角，青洋山第16世，约生于乾隆（1684-1722年）中期，具体年代不详，一共生有九个儿子；妻子共有6个：1原配范氏麗慈，生长子；2许氏妙嘉，生次子；3肖氏妙静，生第三、四子（无传）；4蔡氏淑清，生第五子；5杨氏妙明，生第六、七子；6钱氏妙福，生第八、九子。
（注：养鸭人故事和Fovisser于今年4月发给苏渭滨的《关于中国家谱实际情况的调查研究》资料吻合）
二、日祖先生的第七子的后代：文约先生
‘文约祖’是‘日祖公’第七子后裔，“礽”字辈(21世)，生前于公元1825年（清道光5年），建有一宗祠，名苏氏房祠。文约公派下分为六个房派（6支），第五房（支）23世（‘祖’辈）或24世（‘宗’辈），兄弟共有八人。Fovisse越南的资料中有提到一个名字，苏震启，如果以青洋山村以往传统习惯命名的话，‘震’对应是‘宗’字辈，属24世；苏开振，‘开’对应是‘文’字辈，属25世，苏开振应该是这八兄弟中某一后代的子孙，但具体是那一兄弟之后代，青洋山人口头上也说不太清楚（见下面有图片的“文约祖祠”，中有很多“神主”可待查后、再认定）。
图片3
三、文约、文成兄弟的故事
有一故事说法，苏文约和苏文成是兄弟。苏文约生前为自已先建有一宗祠，宗祠建成后，这个文约祖祠与“二房宗祠”之间有一片空地，是苏文约和苏文成兄弟二人共同拥有的，前面土地权限属于文约祖，后面土地权限属于文成祖。兄弟二人本来商议，要在此空间为父亲建一宗祠。但不知是何原因，苏文成或者是其子孙，没有为苏文成，苏文约之父建宗祠，却建成了“苏文成宗祠”.此举引起‘文约公’子孙反感。更不满的是：建文成公宗祠时，耍心计（手段），宗祠没有和右边‘文约宗祠’，也没和左边“二房宗祠”（十七世）看齐（同一直线上）而建，是往后退十几米而建，在前面留出一大片空地。这样，用中国传统风水学角度来说，“文成宗祠”这样建筑是突出自己，是把两边宗祠（“文成宗祠”和“二房宗祠”），当作椅子两边“护手”，它就能借势发展，但却会影响到两边宗祠后裔发展。当“文成宗祠”在建之初，‘文约公’子孙就一再劝阻无果。文成宗祠建成后，眼看己成事实，‘文约公’子孙心中不服，更怕影响子孙后裔发展，经过商议后，把土地（上述“文成宗祠”的前面）分给了第五子（五户）建房屋，以阻抗‘文成宗祠’之势。其时‘文约祖’之第五子，生有八个儿子（后人称“老八叔”，孙子辈人数也多，正谓人丁兴旺势力足。
What I can make out of it:
"Preliminary" Chinese Vietnamese Family Report for Su Kai Zhen (at first sight)
Part of the information and picture from Fovisser as follows:
First of all, the main person in the story of the duck keeper: Mr. Rì zǔ
Rì zǔ gōng (also known as): Bing Quan, the main person in the story of the duck keeper, is from the 16th generation of Qinyanshan, born about Qianlong (1736─1796 Years), exact age unknown. He had nine sons from six wives as follows: first wife Fàn shì lì cí, who gave birth to the eldest son; second wifeXǔ shì miào jiā gave birth to the second son; third wife Xiào shì miào jìng gave birth to the third and the fourth sons (no detail); fourth wife Càishì shū qīng gave birth to the fifth son; fifth wifeYáng shì miàomíng gave birth to the sixth and seventh son; sixth wife Qián shì miào fú gave birth to the eighth and ninth son.
(Note: the story of the duck keeper is similar to the materials from "the Actual Situation of Chinese Family Tree Investigation ", which Fovisser sent to Su Wei Bin in April.
Second, descendant of Mr. Rì zǔ’s seventh son: Mr. Wén yuē
'Wén yuē zǔ ' is a descendant of mr. Rì zǔ gōng’s seventh son. He was born in 1825 (5th year of the Qing dynasty). He had a hall, called Su's House. In Vietnamese information from Fovisser a name was mentioned: Wúzhènqǐ <Note: this is based on a misunderstanding>, the 24th generation and Sūkāizhèn,the 25th generation, who should be a descendant of one of the eight sons.
Image nr. 3
Third, the story of brother Wén yuē and Wénchéng
There is a story saying that Wén yuē and Wénchéng are brothers. Sū wén yuè built an ancestry hall. After the hall was completed, there was still an open space between the hall and “Er Fang hall". The open space is jointly owned by two brothers, the front land is owned by Wén yuē zǔ.And the back of the land is owned by Wén chéng zǔ.Originally the brothers discussed to build a hall for their father. But for unknown reasons, Sū wén chéng or their grandchildren, did not built it for Sū wén chéng and Sū wén yuè’s father, but called it Sū wén chéng’s hall, which caused dissatisfaction of Wén yuē gōng’s grandchildren. After the completion, Wén yuē gōng’s grandchildren distributed the front land to five sons to build houses. The fifth son had eight sons (called old eight uncles Lǎo bā shū) and many grandchildren.
To be continued.
Please help me to improve this translation or confirm it's right if that's the case. I cannot read Chinese, so I have to rely in Google translate, which is not always accurate.
My name is Frank Visser. I'm living in the Netherlands. My wife is Vietnamese, but her great-grandfather was born in Guangdong, China. I've been tracing my wife's ancestors for several years. We've managed to collect information about the place of origin in China (a village near Puning, Guangdong), generation names and family tales.
This summer we went to the actual village in China and, with the help of locals, we managed to fine the connection with the Chinese branch of the family. I have quite a lot of information now, but I need some help with translation. I have an English translated version, but the translation is very poor. I hope this form can help me to improve the translation. I want to use this information to incorporate in my own version of a family tree book.
I'll add the article as an attachment for who's interested, but I will post it here section by section as translating the whole article at once is too much work.
《初稿》 越南华侨苏开振先生家族调查报告（初步认定）
Fovisser发来资料部分图片如下：
一、养鸭人故事中主角：日祖先生
日祖公，号（可理解为又名）：秉权，就是养鸭人故事中主角，青洋山第16世，约生于乾隆（1684-1722年）中期，具体年代不详，一共生有九个儿子；妻子共有6个：1原配范氏麗慈，生长子；2许氏妙嘉，生次子；3肖氏妙静，生第三、四子（无传）；4蔡氏淑清，生第五子；5杨氏妙明，生第六、七子；6钱氏妙福，生第八、九子。
（注：养鸭人故事和Fovisser于今年4月发给苏渭滨的《关于中国家谱实际情况的调查研究》资料吻合）
二、日祖先生的第七子的后代：文约先生
‘文约祖’是‘日祖公’第七子后裔，“礽”字辈(21世)，生前于公元1825年（清道光5年），建有一宗祠，名苏氏房祠。文约公派下分为六个房派（6支），第五房（支）23世（‘祖’辈）或24世（‘宗’辈），兄弟共有八人。Fovisse越南的资料中有提到一个名字，苏震启，如果以青洋山村以往传统习惯命名的话，‘震’对应是‘宗’字辈，属24世；苏开振，‘开’对应是‘文’字辈，属25世，苏开振应该是这八兄弟中某一后代的子孙，但具体是那一兄弟之后代，青洋山人口头上也说不太清楚（见下面有图片的“文约祖祠”，中有很多“神主”可待查后、再认定）。
图片3
三、文约、文成兄弟的故事
有一故事说法，苏文约和苏文成是兄弟。苏文约生前为自已先建有一宗祠，宗祠建成后，这个文约祖祠与“二房宗祠”之间有一片空地，是苏文约和苏文成兄弟二人共同拥有的，前面土地权限属于文约祖，后面土地权限属于文成祖。兄弟二人本来商议，要在此空间为父亲建一宗祠。但不知是何原因，苏文成或者是其子孙，没有为苏文成，苏文约之父建宗祠，却建成了“苏文成宗祠”.此举引起‘文约公’子孙反感。更不满的是：建文成公宗祠时，耍心计（手段），宗祠没有和右边‘文约宗祠’，也没和左边“二房宗祠”（十七世）看齐（同一直线上）而建，是往后退十几米而建，在前面留出一大片空地。这样，用中国传统风水学角度来说，“文成宗祠”这样建筑是突出自己，是把两边宗祠（“文成宗祠”和“二房宗祠”），当作椅子两边“护手”，它就能借势发展，但却会影响到两边宗祠后裔发展。当“文成宗祠”在建之初，‘文约公’子孙就一再劝阻无果。文成宗祠建成后，眼看己成事实，‘文约公’子孙心中不服，更怕影响子孙后裔发展，经过商议后，把土地（上述“文成宗祠”的前面）分给了第五子（五户）建房屋，以阻抗‘文成宗祠’之势。其时‘文约祖’之第五子，生有八个儿子（后人称“老八叔”，孙子辈人数也多，正谓人丁兴旺势力足。
What I can make out of it:
"Preliminary" Chinese Vietnamese Family Report for Su Kai Zhen (at first sight)
Part of the information and picture from Fovisser as follows:
First of all, the main person in the story of the duck keeper: Mr. Rì zǔ
Rì zǔ gōng (also known as): Bing Quan, the main person in the story of the duck keeper, is from the 16th generation of Qinyanshan, born about Qianlong (1736─1796 Years), exact age unknown. He had nine sons from six wives as follows: first wife Fàn shì lì cí, who gave birth to the eldest son; second wifeXǔ shì miào jiā gave birth to the second son; third wife Xiào shì miào jìng gave birth to the third and the fourth sons (no detail); fourth wife Càishì shū qīng gave birth to the fifth son; fifth wifeYáng shì miàomíng gave birth to the sixth and seventh son; sixth wife Qián shì miào fú gave birth to the eighth and ninth son.
(Note: the story of the duck keeper is similar to the materials from "the Actual Situation of Chinese Family Tree Investigation ", which Fovisser sent to Su Wei Bin in April.
Second, descendant of Mr. Rì zǔ’s seventh son: Mr. Wén yuē
'Wén yuē zǔ ' is a descendant of mr. Rì zǔ gōng’s seventh son. He was born in 1825 (5th year of the Qing dynasty). He had a hall, called Su's House. In Vietnamese information from Fovisser a name was mentioned: Wúzhènqǐ <Note: this is based on a misunderstanding>, the 24th generation and Sūkāizhèn,the 25th generation, who should be a descendant of one of the eight sons.
Image nr. 3
Third, the story of brother Wén yuē and Wénchéng
There is a story saying that Wén yuē and Wénchéng are brothers. Sū wén yuè built an ancestry hall. After the hall was completed, there was still an open space between the hall and “Er Fang hall". The open space is jointly owned by two brothers, the front land is owned by Wén yuē zǔ.And the back of the land is owned by Wén chéng zǔ.Originally the brothers discussed to build a hall for their father. But for unknown reasons, Sū wén chéng or their grandchildren, did not built it for Sū wén chéng and Sū wén yuè’s father, but called it Sū wén chéng’s hall, which caused dissatisfaction of Wén yuē gōng’s grandchildren. After the completion, Wén yuē gōng’s grandchildren distributed the front land to five sons to build houses. The fifth son had eight sons (called old eight uncles Lǎo bā shū) and many grandchildren.
To be continued.
Please help me to improve this translation or confirm it's right if that's the case. I cannot read Chinese, so I have to rely in Google translate, which is not always accurate.
