My paternal Tan and maternal Toh families

[hocky]

I have been searching without success, my Tan family roots before my dad who is no longer with us and also my Toh family roots before my great grandfather.

My dad was what I presume a Straits born Chinese as his mum usually wore the traditional dress and spoke the language of that culture in Malaysia and Singapore. We do not have any clues of this family history as the elders have already gone and we are not able to search for the gravestones as we are far away. I assume that they all came from the southern part of China in the 1800s possibly from Fukien Province.

On my mum's side, they did not appear to be Straits born in the photos, but she did dress as one and also spoke the same language probably due to marriage to a Straits born Chinese. I really don't know. Their wedding photo shows a Straits born style wedding, but I am unable to compare this to a traditional Chinese wedding dress which I have not seen before.

I am just wondering if anyone here can help me find my China roots as I would like one day to be able to fly there to search for the actual villages my ancestors came from and see what it really looks like now. I would also like to see pictures of the places in the 1800s if there are any still intact and also meet people who can be our long lost cousins and so on.

Thanks for all you help in advance, cheers.

[Henry]

Hi Hocky,

Welcome to the Forum !

"Tan" can be an English romanization for 2 different Chinese surnames. Chinese that emigrated to Malaysia originated from both Guangdong and Fujian (Fukien) provinces, China - while the Tan romanization is exactly the same - the Chinese surnames are different as indicated by their Chinese characters.

Yesterday, a Filipino person of Chinese ancestry had a similar question, but, since over 98% of the Chinese in the Philippines originate from Fujian province - it was probable that the Chinese surname is "Chen" - this is the PinYin romanization. I have also included some of the same responses from my posting from yesterday.

According to the Wikipedia article [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_in_Malaysia ],the Chinese from Guangdong and Fujian provinces settled in specific areas in Malaysia - do you know which areas that your ancestors settled in Malaysia. This may indicate their china province of origin.

"Tan", depending on the Chinese dialect & associated romanization can refer to the [ Tan 陳 ] surname ( rank # 5 ) or to the [ Tan 譚 ] ( rank # 67) - see the listing of Chinese surnames [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_Chinese_surnames ]. This can probably be verified by Chinese documents that you might have. If your ancestral Chinese name is the same as mine [ Tan 譚 ] - if it is and you can provide me with some Chinese characters for the name of your ancestral village in the SiYi region - I would be happy to try and help you. I also maintain a clan website for my Chinese surname:

mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/index.html

The Cantonese romanization for your "Tan" surname is " Chan/Chin/Chinn ", the Mandarin (PinYin) romanization for your surname is "Chen". If you are a "Chen", ou are very fortunate that one of the best Chinese genealogy people on the SiYi Forum is "Twoupman", who shares your ancestral Chinese surname and has created a Chinn Clan website:

houseofchinn.com

This particular website will really provide you with the best description and explanation of your ancestral Chinese heritage and history.

After reviewing the House of Chinn website - you may want to contact Al Chinn and ask him for some help. His email address is available from his website.

My suggestion at this point is to try and find out if there are any Chinese family associations in the cities where your ancestors lived and to try and see if they were members. Most overseas Chinese emigrating to a foreign country would usually try and become members of such family associations. The other possibilities are the immigration records for the Philippines.

The only other sources that I can recommend are below :[ National Archives and the Genealogical Society of Utah (GSU) - GSU has offices 4500 offices worldwide and have 5 in the Malaysia - where you can get access to these microfilms:

Go to: www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp
search under "Malaysia".

The following information was extracted from an article by:

Melvin P. Thatcher
Area Manager, Asia/Pacific/Africa Acquisitions
Genealogical Society of Utah

Malaysia

The genealogies and community records of Chinese Malaysians in the microfilm collection of the GSU were acquired primarily through cooperation with the Library and the Department of Chinese Studies of the University of Malaya between 1981-84. Professor Tay Lian Soo, who is now teaching at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, was responsible for locating and negotiating permission to film Chinese records which were then filmed by the university library. Chinese community publications and documents were collected on the Malayan Peninsula and in East Malaysia. Additional titles for Chinese in Malaysia have been acquired through microfilming in other countries.

Classified by type of record, the GSU's holdings for Chinese in Malaysia are as follows:

Number of Titles on

Record Type Microfilm Microfiche
Clan Association 3 25
District Association 1 115
Other Association 2 44
Biography 6
Temple 6
Cemetery 13
School 1 9
Genealogy 4 41
Other 6 11

The titles for all kinds of associations, temples, and schools on microfilm and microfiche are primarily publications, such as anniversary commemoration volumes, but also include some institutional records. The cemetery titles are copies of burial registers or permits for 11 Chinese cemeteries in Malacca (5), Penang (3), Muar (2), and Johore (1).

The genealogies in the collection represent 21 surnames: Cai, Chen, Hu, Kong, Li, Liang, Lin, Liu, Luo, Pan, Ruan, Shen, Tan, Wang, Wen, Wu, Xu, Yan, Yang, Zeng, and Zheng.

Henry

[twoupman]

This is an interesting query but very hard to resolve because of a lack of information except for the two surnames, Tan and Toh. However, since it is written in a language that may not be quite clear to other forumites, I thought it may be helpful if I provide some background information.

Hocky refers to his father as being “Straits-born Chinese”. This is an old term which is not too often heard nowadays. During the British colonial era that were four regions which constituted the Straits Settlements (the “Straits” came from the water-way called the Straits of Malacca between Indonesia and Malaysia), Penang, Province Wellesley, Malacca and Singapore. The rest of the peninsula sultanates were then known as the Federated Malay (pronounced Melay the “me” as in “mermaid”) States. While this term does not specifically identify whether the parentage is Chinese or mixed, it is often assumed to be the latter and means the person had a Chinese father and Malay mother. They are also referred to as Peranakans with the same connotation as the Mestizos in the Philippines. The men were also called Babas and the women were Nonyas.

He then said his grandmother wore the “traditional dress”. This meant she wore a sarong and a kebaya (blouse), the normal attire of Malay women.

She spoke the “language of that culture in Malaysia and Singapore”. Here I believe Hocky meant she spoke Malay mixed with Hokkien words.

While he does not know where his grandfather came from in China he was quite right in assuming it was Fujian Province which corroborates with his surname of Tan (same as my surname 陳) which is the Minnan/Hokkien dialect pronunciation. In fact most Peranakans are of Hokkien origin because they were only men who ventured to this region first while the Cantonese and others came much later. They term Hokkien is their dialect pronunciation for Fujian.

While on his mother’s side of the family they are Straits-born Chinese they are not Peranakans which means both parents were Chinese.

As for the wedding style of the Peranakans they are actually Chinese in origin and they are quite strict about adhering to its customs.

This then is a brief background about Straits-born Chinese in Singapore and Malaysia. This same background is also applicable for Indonesia where the majority of the early Chinese settlers were also of Hokkien origin.

The other surname Toh is not so easy to pin down because in Hokkien it can be 桌, 屠, 杜 or 竇.

Hocky, unless you can come up with more information there is little chance of finding the villages where your Tan and Toh ancestors came from in Fujian Province.


houseofchinn.com

[hocky]

I'd have to thank you both very much for your assistance Henry and twoupman. My Tan is the same as twoupman as per the Chinese character. I don't think my paternal ancestors had any Malay origin, but my grandmother did wear the traditional sarong kebaya and could speak some Hokkien and also Cantonese I think. It was a long time ago though. We have no records on her husband's side. My dad was a bit darker than usual and so am I and my son too. Possible connections? I get dark very easily, but only when exposed to the hot sun doing work or playing sports outside. However, my complexion is not the same yellowish white as per the Northern Chinese from Beijing or Shanghai. My wife has been to Fujian and Guandong quite recently and a few times and has found the Southern Chinese of a darker complexion than the Northerners perhaps due to more exposure to the sun and hotter weather there. I only know that my dad's side originated from China, but established in Singapore in the 1800s. My mother's side also originated from China, but established in Johore Baru in the 1800s. I still have black and white photos of my great granddad taken in his maybe 50's I presume with his ranking medals from the then Sultan Abu Bakar of Johor. He was awarded the Knight Grand Commander Star(looks like silver or gold and quite large) and the Knight Grand Commander Collar(smaller star hung below a silver or gold chain around the neck like a mayoral chain). That made him a Dato(S.P.M.J.). His son, my grandfather is also shown in another picture in the early 1900s in his 40s wearing a Knight Companion star with ribbon. My great grand father also has a road in Johore Baru using his name and title. I wonder if this will help. He was a TOH and I can give you his full name in private mail please. We have no connection with his family on the Johore side for many years, only when my mum was around and that was in the 50s, 60s and early 70s. The only Toh family we have connection with now is my uncle's( one of the 2 brothers) family in Singapore and some of my auntie's families still in Singapore with their husband's surnames. Perhaps the only way you guys can help me is to trace for me my maternal side with my great grandad's full name as I know it to be. How its written in Chinese characters I don't know. Burial site must be in Johor and the original family home is still depicted in an internet site I found. Thanks for your help and I hope you guys can help me unravel this mystery for me.

[twoupman]

Starting with your maternal Toh side of the family__ since you have found a Toh website I suggest you contact the webmaster and see if he/she can help you locate your ggf's gravesite in Johor Baru. Chances are very good the tombstone will have Chinese script on it and it will probably identify the village in China where he came from. You should also recruit your Singapore Toh uncle and other family members for assistance.

As for your Tan family__I suggest you visit the government office for births and deaths and obtain a certificate for your gf to establish when he died. Next search your Singapore white pages telephone directory for Tan Associations and call them all up and visit them to see if they can help you identify where your gf may be buried. If you are lucky, visit the gravesite and take a photo of the tombstone. If it has Chinese script on it ask somebody to help translate them, normally it would also identify the village in China.

Since you do not appear to have Malay ancestry then your maternal and paternal families are Peranakan Cina. The very old Peranakan families do have Malay ancestry, especially those from Melaka where the Chinese arrived very much earlier than those from Singapore. If you wish to learn more about Peranakans here is a website: www.peranakan.org.sg/

Ching Beng (Qing Ming 清明) is on April 4, 2008, so it would be appropriate to visit the gravesites in Johor Baru and Singapore during that time.

[hocky]

Thanks twoupman for your advice. I am very far away from the area so I won't be able to do the usual Cheng Beng activities and besides we have never been there and do not know where the sites are anyway. Perhaps I will recruit somebody in our family who lives closeby to visit and see if they can find any clues about our ancestor's origins. There is no website for this Toh family as far as I know. All the information I have received is from other unrelated sites which I discovered by surfing the net. I went into a British site for old Malaysian Royalty awards like datokships and medals given by the Sultans and found the exact awards(to compare with those my great grandad and grandfather are wearing in their old photos) I mentioned after a few months of searching and wrong information. As for the old family home, I searched a site by accident about the old kaki lima type of 2 storey homes upstairs and downstairs and some with shops below which were common during the late 1800s and early 1900s in parts of Malaysia and Singapore which are still found in certain areas which have escaped the redevelopment phase now going on. My uncle in Singapore I think is unable to assist due to his age and condition. Perhaps a search from his family may find something later on. As for my aunties, I think maybe only one is around, the youngest who should be in her 80s if she is still there. Her family won't be able to help. All the others have passed sadly and I don't think the families will have anything useful to contribute. It does look like a dead end for this search unless I can get something else later on when I have more time and able to go and do a physical search for more clues. Cheers .

[jefferyseow]

The Tan name is a pretty old name in Malaya. My great grand mother's great grand father, Tan Tock Seng, was born in Malacca in 1798 and there are Tan families that go back even further than that in the Straits. If no one knows how many generations have been born in Malaya, you could make a guesstimate by looking at the earliest family grave. Have you done the Cheng Beng thing and if you have, could you find the graves you used to visit? That would be of some help I would think.

[philiptancl]

Recently I received an email from a Tan (陳) in Singapore trying to locate his great grandfather’s grave in Malacca. He did not even know the name of his great grandfather. His late grandfather (the only son) was born in Malacca but immigrated to Singapore. I already told him the best way to find out his great grandfather’s name and he is in the process of doing it. What I wish to relate here is about a Chinese Cemetery in Malacca.

One of my engineers comes from Malacca. This is what he found out for me. For Hocky’s case, the grave would not be in Malacca but he could probably use this as a guide for other places in Malaysia. For cases in Malacca the graves are likely to be in Bukit Jelutong Chinese Cemetery. I understand the burial records are kept in Chen Hun Teng Temple in Joker Street. I further understand they have records from 1940's onwards. For those interested I understand you can contact Cheng Hun Teng temple whose telephone number is [phone]. Or you can contact the person in charge, Mr Chong, at his hand phone [phone]. I understand Mr Chong speaks Mandarin. Probably he could speak Hockien as well, as it is in Malacca.

[Henry]

Dear Colleagues,

SiYi Forum members and their descendants living outside of Singapore and Malaysia may not be aware of who Tan Tock Seng was. He was quite a Singaporean businessman and philanthropist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tan_Tock_Seng

www.ttsh.com.sg/new/about/founder.htm


Henry