Lim ancestors in Fujian, China

[gracelim]

I'm searching for the location where my ancestors lived in Fujian.
My dad's grandpa was named Lim Po (Lim Tian Po, born in 1831 in Go Kwan Sia, Amoy, Fujian) and his son was named Lim Kang Sia (born in 1884).

It was said that Lim Po was the youngest son of Lim Pek Khoen. Lim Po left Fujian and went to live in Indonesia. Lim Pek Khoen was born in Go Kwan Sia, Amoy, Fujian. He owned a mountain and I have a name of some kind of area or adres in Fujian, China. It goes like this "tjiang tjioe hou hai teng kwan sam to go kwan sia".  I don't know what it means. I would like to know where this mountain is and what the name of the mountain is. I hope somebody can help me. Thanks very much.

[philiptancl]

Hi Gracelim,

Besides “Lim”, “Amoy”, “Fujian”, can you please provide the various names of people, places and locations in Chinese characters? I shall try to see whether I am able to assist. Recently someone from Java, Indonesia with surname Tan/Chen (陳) contacted me about his ancestry and his ancestral place is from Hushan (岵山), Yongchun (永春), Fujian (福建); the same as mine. He turned out to be my 15th cousin twice removed, his grandfather being my 15th cousin. I completed his pedigree chart for him which he never knew he could find.

Referring to the posting by Timothylim at siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1236/lin-lim-lam-lum-clan?page=7 dated Sep 10, 2017, I am now in contact with his father and is in the process of constructing his pedigree chart. This Lim (林) case is one where he already has his ancestral books updated in 1997 but the family does not know could not make head or tail from the set of three books. I shall write and post about this case eventually.

Gracelim, which country are you currently residing now?

Philip

[gracelim]

Dear Philip,

Thank you for your response. I reside in the Netherlands. Unfortunately I don't know any Chinese characters. I can ask my mom when I see her.

I found out that my ancestors came from the village Ngo kuan, district of Chang Chu, county of San Tho, state of Fu Kean. We are from the tribe of Hokkian (Fu-chien). Subgroup Chang-chou, west of Amoy. it is on 24.30 degrees north, latitude 118.10 degrees east longitude.
National language Kuo Yu (kuan hua; pai hua). I hope that you can find out more with this information.

Also: How do I find out more about these ancestors, their lifestyles, religion and what they did in life? Thank you so much, Philip.

Grace

[philiptancl]

Hi Gracelim,

From what I can make out Chang Chu in Hokkien (Southern Min dialect) would likely be Quanzhou (泉州) while Amoy is Xiamen (廈門); Xiamen been formerly romanized as Amoy. That you are from Netherland, I could roughly guess that your ancestor migrated from the ancestral place you had quoted in Fujian to Indonesia. From Indonesia, your subsequent ancestor then migrated to Netherland.
What exactly are you after? Are you trying to find your Lim (林) clan ancestral records from the ancestral place you mentioned so that you can trace your family tree as far back as the records would allow? For that you need to provide the information for the name(s) of ancestor(s) /relative(s) in Chinese characters. From the latitude and longitude you provided, the location seems to be as marked in the map attached. Can you check with your mom if it is correct?



Philip

[gracelim]

Hi Philip,
Wow, you found the city....amazing !!!! Thank you so much. I will show my mom and ask her if she knows some familynames in Chinese characters.
Do you know if Quanzhou or Hougang, during 1800-1900, was peaceful or was there a lot of strife? What religion did people have and were there any temples in this area?

I heard you speak in other posts about the 9 sons of the dragon. Can you tell me what that means? I would like to know if my familiyline is also part of the 9 dragons and if there are other deities in my familyline.
Thank, Philip.

Grace

[philiptancl]

Hi Gracelim,

I am not at all certain on what I showed on the map would be the place where your ancestor originated from. I determined the location based on the “24.30 degrees north, latitude 118.10 degrees east longitude” you had provided. Personally I doubt that is the correct place of your ancestry.
I am not knowledgeable about religions. However, from my various visits to China and to Fujian, I observed there are many temples. I am quite positive there would be temples in wherever your Lim ancestral place in Fujian is. For those who ventured overseas, and one related to your surname Lim (林), the most significant would be Mazu (媽祖); the Chinese sea goddess deified from historical Lin Mo Niang (林默孃) born on the Meizhou Island (湄洲島). She is worshipped throughout China's coastal regions and Chinese communities throughout Southeast Asia and is also known by many other names. I had been to Meizhou Island to visit the temple dedicated to her there. I understand Admiral Zheng He (鄭和) (romanized as Cheng Ho), though a Muslim, paid respect there before one of his voyages. The other Lim temple I visited was for the first Lim that went to Fujian. That temple is just beside his grave.

The 9 dragons I had referred to are the 9 sons of Lin Pi (林披) who all became important officials. The 9 dragons are Lin Wei (林葦), Lin Zao (林藻), Lin Zhe (林著), Lin Jian (林荐), Lin Ye (林曄), Lin Yun (林蘊), Lin Meng (林蒙), Lin Mai (林邁) and Lin Ji (林蔇). Should you eventually find your ancestral records, it is likely you could be descended from one of the 9 dragons. Stephen Lim is descended from the second dragon. On September 5, 2017 someone from US visited me in Kuala Lumpur to discuss about Chinese genealogy and to get the set of four Chen/Tan (陳) charts I prepared for him. He is also doing a Lim/Lin ancestry descended from the first dragon. His wife, of Korean origin with surname Zheng (鄭), saw my set of three Zheng charts and got so excited that she wanted the three Zheng charts as well. Another Lim in contact with me is looking for the names descended from the ninth dragon to the progenitor of his ancestral place in Fujian. Timothylim who I mentioned earlier in this thread is descended from Lin Zun (林尊), the cousin of the 9 dragons.

I am not familiar on the history of that period you mentioned. What I understand is that they were considerable migration from that region of China to overseas. Living there then must be pretty tough then. I would suggest you view the whole TV series entitled “South of the Ocean” in YouTube. The first portion of the first part is at:



Just continue from one part of the YouTube to another to see the whole series.

Philip Tan

[gracelim]

Hi philip,

thank you for all your information and your kindness.
I asked my mom if she knows how to write the names in Chinese characters and she said no. She can wite her own name and from my dad, but not from ancestors.
Thanks for the names of the 9 dragons. Why are they called dragons? Is there a special symbolism or meaning to it? I think that indeed there is a big chance we descend from one of the dragons too. Is it an honor to be a descendent of a dragon?

Do you know how I can find out someone's personal history and what they did in life? Is there some kind of archive or something? Do I have to start in Indonesia or do I styart in Fujian? Thanks Philip.
Grace

[chansomvia]

Hi Philip

Thanks for the links to the amazing story of the Chinese in the South. My children's partners are from Sibu and my wife is a Lim.

Hope to meet up with you in KL one day.

Joe Chan
Christchurch

[philiptancl]

Hi Gracelin,

I suppose that traditionally, excellent and outstanding people are compared to a dragon. I suppose the 9 sons were outstanding officials, I suppose there were referred as the 9 dragons of the Lim clan. One reason why it is interesting to find out your Chinese ancestry is that you can glimpse at your family history. People like us from overseas very often think we are descendants of poor peasants who emigrated out of China because of economic reasons. I have seen enough of ancestries to note that many of our ancestors were scholars and important officials but subsequent generations could have had fallen on testing times.


Unless the person was of significant importance in the locality and his achievement and history was recorded in the local gazette or family records, finding out someone's personal history and what they did in life, I suppose you would need to do your own personal research. Researchers for the series “South of the Ocean” did extensive research in the archive of the Dutch museum. If you are not able to do such research yourself, maybe you can inquire from My China Roots whether they could do it for you. The owner is Huihan Lie, from Netherland and once from Indonesia of Chinese descent, now is in Beijing. From what I understand Huihan Lie (with a law degree and a post graduate program in international relations) left a comfortable, well-paying job as a Vice President at a successful multinational in Beijing with a full expat package and benefits to devote full time in Chinese genealogy in helping people connect with their roots.

Philip Tan

[philiptancl]

Hi Joe Chan,

It would be great to meet up with you in KL when you are next in KL. It would be nice to get to know your Chan ancestry and that of your wife Lim ancestry. I consider people of Chinese descent in Sibu are the still the most traditional among those in Malaysia. I have always wanted to trace the ancestry someone from Sibu.

I bought the books that go with the series “South of the Ocean” but it is in Chinese which I do not know how to read.

Philip Tan

[gracelim]

Hi Philip,
Thank you so much for all your valuable information, I learn so much from you. I have watched all the video's and they are very interesting and informative. I will watch them again. I will certainly contact the Dutch Tropen museum and see if they can help me. I will also look at My Chinese Roots. Thank you again, Philip.
Grace

[philiptancl]

It would appear that a few aspects of Gacelim query were edited out and as such some parts of my answer and comment I had responded with on Oct 8, 2017 would no longer be relevant within the context of this thread. Unless someone elsewhere wishes to read them for future reference and request that they be added back, I am therefore editing them out from this thread.

Philip Tan

[jan2lim]

my great grandfather Lim, Chua Co, was also from Amoy, Fujian, maybe they are related