Chan family originating from Dagang, Jiangmen, Guangdong

[gk]

Hello all!
I'm attempting to trace my family's roots to our ancestral village.
I asked My China Roots (very helpful!) to help me research and they think they have identified my family's village as Dagang Village - Tanbian Village - Chaolian - Pengjian - Jiangmen - Guangdong Province. (so many subdistricts in China!)

Apparently there are 3 villages in Chaolian that have a history of the Chan clan living there for a long time; Dajing, Xiangtou and Dagang. 
All 3 of these villages have a very similiar family poem as my family poem.
There is a zupu in Dagang Village that has generations 1-9.

Does anyone know if this indicates that the various Chans in these villages are likely branches of the same family tree?

Did some families just decide to branch off and create their own poems and zupus? I don't quite understand how this works.
Is it worthwhile to get the zupu from the Dagang Village Chan ancestral hall for generations 1-9 (slightly different family poem) (can't read it?)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Any Chans out there?

I am illiterate in Chinese, but for Canto readers (The name of Dagang Village in Cantonese is Tai Kong Tsuen / 大岡村.
It is now belong to the Taan Bin / 坦邊 community of Chiu Lean / 潮連 Street, Pung Gong / 蓬江 District, Gong Mun / 江門 City, Kwangtung Province)

[gckimm]

Hi gk:

I think you are correct in thinking that all of the Chans living in those three villages are related. The similarity of the poem verifies this, although poems are usually the same for all families who share a particular lineage. Perhaps village elders decided to make some small changes for whatever reason.

I can see, however, different members of the clan having their own copies of a genealogy. The information about the earlier generations would be the same in all of the genealogies but the later information would differ from book to book--maybe from village to village or from family to family--because they would be constantly updated with new births, deaths, and marriages.

Is it worthwhile to get a copy of that book from Dagang Village? Hard to say. Would it be difficult/expensive? The problem from a genealogical point of view is that there are probably a lot of generations between the last generation listed in that book (9) and your own generation. While it would be interesting to know about your more remote ancestors (if you can get the information translated), you have no way of knowing exactly how you are descended from them. It would sort of be like saying you are related to George Washington but you don't know how. You also will not know the origin of your particular branch of the family. For example, you might be descended from the third son of the fourth generation ancestor but the family tree you have may not help you to figure that out. People in the Chan clan of Dagang obviously need to get busy with putting out a new updated version of their genealogy!

Is that 9-generation book the best that My China Roots could find for you? Perhaps there are no relatives with a more updated book.

Good luck in your research.

Greg

[gk]

Hi gckimm!
Sincere thanks for taking the time to reply.
I'm new in this journey and am feeling rather lost so any guidance is greatly appreciated!

I'm a bit confused about the Chan zupu in the ancestral hall in Dagang. I was told 1-9th generation and also 9-11th so I have asked the researcher to clarify. But either way, it is surely a long distance from my current generation. I assume that zupu is very similiar to my family poem since the researcher said all the villages share a very similar poem.
Thank you for the George Washington analogy, very useful! I am dubious any of the Chan families in the village(s) in Chaolian hold zupus that connect upwards to the old zupu in the temple, but I suppose it's a possibility. 

It's been interesting as I had an HK uncle (deceased) who did all the family research and visited the ancestral village sometime around 2005-2010. I was probably too distracted to care at the time and never discussed it with my father. But after my father passed I found some papers amongst his things. I have my paternal great grandfather's birth certificate and I have the family geneaology from this great grandfather down to my father, plus the family poem. My great grandfather is who left Chaolian for HK. So I am quite certain the ancestral village is in Chaolian because of the birth certificate.

My China Roots used these papers and contacted 2/3 "Chan" villages in Chaolian. In Dagang, a Chan kinsman, says he recalls hearing of my uncle visiting and researching the area and that my uncle and his granduncle became friends in HK.  My China Roots reached out to the HK nephew of this granduncle and he "confirmed" Dagang is the village because he was acquainted with my uncle. So it seems possible, but based on heresay of course.

As an aside, after my uncle passed (he was a HK civil servant and an academic), he left his box of Chan family papers to his brother (another uncle). I asked this uncle to please hold onto the papers until I could retrieve them from HK. And recently, when I inquired about them he told me he burned them all. The researcher uncle was a meticulous record keeper and all for naught!

I supposed I am at a bit of a dead end at this point, I will see what My China Roots suggests. I will update if any progress is made, wish me luck!

Thank you very much for the help!

[gk]

"Note that most Cantonese people, and certainly those with family origins in the Pearl River Delta, claim that their ancestors moved to the south of China from the north of China (usually around the 12th to the 13th century). Genealogies often take great pains to explain this. One reason for this is that in ancient times, what is now southern China was the home of various groups of native people (not Han Chinese) and southern clans wanted to make sure people knew that they were truly "Chinese.""

Thank you for this information gckimm. I recently received this tidbit from My China Roots:

"The 1st generation of ancestors recorded in the Dagang Chan Genealogy means the first Chan ancestor to settle in Dagang Village. We found out online that the 1st ancestor of the Chan Clan in Dagang Village was named Long He / 龍壑, who came to settle in 1273 AD to escape from the war. Long He was the 1st generation, and since then his descendants have been the 2nd and 3rd generations in order ......"

Having just received this bit of information, I was pondering where the Chan ancestors were before 1273 and your explanation correlates with the this date. 

[tsin.unfoon]

Hello GK,

On FamilySearch I found a person living around 1273.  The url is www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LKJW-3MY.

He passed in 中國廣東江門新會潮蓮鄉芝山巷頭.  He could be the same person Long He / 龍壑.  You will need to check further along the family tree to know if he is the same person.

---

[gk]

Oh wow Dan, thanks so much for researching and sharing that information with me. I'm going to pass it on to My China Roots. They are sending a researcher to the village to see if they can uncover any more information.

Really, we are going toneed some luck if we even want to find a zupu that actually relates directly to my Chan lineage. For some reason my Grandfather, Father and brother do not follow our family poem...which is really quite perplexing. 

I will update if I get any new information, but I did request a copy of the Chan zupu they claim is there.

[gk]

A quick recap on the search for my ancestral village and zupu.
My China Roots went to visit Dagang and took photos of the limited zupu in the ancestral hall. The first generation Chan clan member, Long He, is buried in Dagang. The zupu is limited and begins with Long He and ends 21 generations later. Long He is the grandson of Chen Feng Tai via his father Xuan. (Chen Feng Tai - Xuan - Long He)

My China Roots was able to find my uncle's name in various visitor records and thus we confirmed Dagang is the correct ancestral village.

I saw Dr Philip Tan (on this forum) collects Chan (amongst others) zupus so I sent him a copy of the zupu for his records. I didn't really think there was much to be done since my limited family records do not connect to the village zupu. I was satisfied with the confirmation of the ancestral village and thought there was no further research to be done. But Dr. Tan was able to piece together the puzzle and amazingly was able to build a family tree for me. Yes, we are missing about 5 generations, but I think (hope) eventually I will be able to locate those via 23andme and Ancestry.com.

This is the grave of Long He in Dagang Village.