Looking for my maternal grandparents: Taishan and Zhongshan

[dragon008]

Hi all,

For the past few days, I tried to locate my maternal grandparents from information I recently reviewed.

My maternal grandfather surname is Cho 曹 and his village was in Taishan:
         台山县广海镇河洲里.
From map.qq., Mapbar.com, Baidu and Google Maps, I was only able to locate Guanghai Town 广海镇, but unable to find the village, 河洲里. I tried looking at other surrounding villages near 河洲里, but were unsuccessful.

My maternal grandmother surname is Gao (or Ko 高) and her village is in Zhongshan:
         中山县石岐岐杭村.
The Village DB provided little information for Ko 高 in Zhongshan and really didn't know where to start.

I hope you can help me in my search and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Dragon088

[tyuti1668]

Apr 19, 2023 23:36:02 GMT -5 dragon008 said:

...台山县广海镇河洲里...
...中山县石岐岐杭村...

Today's proper name 广海镇城北村委会(Tel:[phone])河洲村 ditu.amap.com/search?query=%E5%8F%B0%E5%B1%B1%E5%BB%A3%E6%B5%B7%E6%B2%B3%E6%B4%B2 map.qq.com/poi/?sm=656375140381704552&keyfrom=1

德庆乡龙眼都, 故永乐都龙眼里上围下围, 在县西南二十里, 图九, 三十里海中。村二十七, 曰:青姜、土瓜、叠石、大涌、小洋、婆石、南村、阪尾、竹仔林、象角头、刘坑、沙圃、山尾、岐坑、沙堋下、塘下、大石头、石门、濠涌、坎下、吴家、潘家坑、邧兔、山溪角、旁头、路头、田边

It's in Village DB area 2  villagedb.friendsofroots.org/display.cgi/village/6604 (NOT 石岐 Area 1). Today's name is 岐亨.  j.map.baidu.com/f8/E4Hg
These 高 in Area 2 are related .

...维峤长子高康号听潮，迁居新会沙堆乡那伏村。维岳生一子高添，高添生震英，居香山(今中山)。震英生四子，长子玄生；次子梁生居香山县小榄都大榄村，后裔分枝顺德大良；三子洪生居香山县龙眼都奇坑村 (今岐亨)，后裔分枝大石头村(今大石兜)；四子忠生居龙眼都豪兔村(今豪吐)，忠生次子…

[dragon008]

Hi tyuti 1668,
Thank you for your input, but I'm a little confused. The information on Today's proper name, 广海镇城北村委会, on the map takes me back to my maternal grandfather, Cho 曹 village in Taishan. My grandmother, Gao (Ko 高) village was in Zhongshan. I included the gravestone of my grandmother. Maybe a little clarification would help.
Thank you

[tyuti1668]

I'm 99.99%+ sure what i said
1. There's NO 岐杭" search result related to ZS in ANY search engine.
2. She's a 高 & Area 2's 岐坑 matches.
--
Words on tombstone maybe the end result when non-ZS ppl fooled by upper Longdu (spokes some Shekki dialect/ Always refer to SK when talking homeland topics) ppl.

[dragon008]

Hi tyuti1668,
Rereading your previous post and giving much thoughts ... you have giving me more information than I realized, thank you very much. Looking at the first Chinese paragraph, I see the Gao's villages of Qikeng and Danutsou (both former names of Qiheng and Dashidou), as two of the 27 villages mentioned. In the 2nd paragraph, which appears to be a genealogical-like Gao family tree, the 3rd son of Zhenying, Hong Shen lived in Qikeng village (now Qiheng). You pointed out the Village DB area 2, along with the current village name, 岐亨 and the 高 clan and from Google and Ditu Maps, I was able to locate Ho To (豪叶), Sun Lo (新路) and Qiheng (岐亨) villages.
BTW, can you help me with any information on Cho(曹) and 城北村/河洲里? I have a partial Cho(曹) family chart that I'm trying to figure out.
Thanks and best regards,

[gckimm]

Hi Dragon 008:

I don’t know if this information will be helpful to you, but I found some pages on the history of the Cho clan in Toishan, with a specific mention of your maternal grandfather’s village. I translated the pertinent section for you. If you are not familiar with the story of the So concubine 苏妃 and the migration of people from Pearl Alley 珠玑巷, see Him Mark Lai’s article here, starting on page 5: himmarklai.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/The-Guangdong-Historical-background.pdf. I romanized the names, except for the names of the emperor and the dynasty, using standard Cantonese.

In the time of the Song emperor Ningzong 宋宁宗 (1195-1224), the ancestor Yue Duen 汝端 lived in Pearl Alley. Because of the incident with the concubine So, he took his two wives, Chiu Shee 赵氏 and Leung Shee 梁氏, and his two sons, Yue Lup 与立 and Yue Kuen 与权, and moved to Lai Doong, Hoiping 开平丽峒 (the Village Database has the name of this village as 丽洞). Yue Kuen, who became a Song official, married Lum Shee 林氏 and had two sons, Mun Bing 文炳 and Mun Fook 文福. Mun Bing lived for the rest of his life in Lai Doong, becoming the founding ancestor of the Cho clan in Hoiping. His descendants continued to live in Lai Doong; however, some of his descendants moved to villages in Gwong Hoi Town in Toishan 台山广海镇, including Hoh Jau Village 河洲村.

(For the whole article, see the Taishan government website: www.cnts.gov.cn/tssrmzf/zjts/lswh/xsyl/tsxs/content/post_728082.html)

Another article gave the names of Mun Bing’s sons: Bit Sin 必先 and Bit Joong 必忠.

Good luck in learning more about your ancestors.

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Greg,
Very interesting! The information you provided provided a spark that lit a small flickering light at the end of the tunnel. The names you provided Yue Kuen (与权), Mun Bing (文炳), and Bit Sin (必先) also appear in my partial Cho's Genealogy's bundle of pages. It starts with Zhao(赵) as the beginning progenitor, then Yue Kuen(与权), Wen Bing(文炳) and Bi Xian(必先) as the 4th generation.
Thank you for the links to Him Mark Lai article and the Taishan Municipal People's Government on Cao.
Also, you mentions another article that gave the name of Mun Bing's sons, can you send me the link?
Thank you so much,
Dragon008

[gckimm]

Hi Dragon008:

The other article is here: www.360doc.com/content/19/0822/11/53065865_856399261.shtml

It is about the Cho clan in Jiangmen 江门, which now includes the former Toishan and Hoiping Counties. In the second paragraph there is mention of the first four generations of the Cho clan of Hoiping.

I believe that if your previous information said that Zhao (Cantonese Chiu) was the first ancestor, it was a mistaken reference to the wife of Yue Duen,the founding Cho ancestor of both Hoiping and Toishan. Mun Bing is the "first ancestor who moved (to Hoiping)."

Note that both articles also contain the "generation poem," but it is the generation poem for the Cho clan of Hoiping, so I am not sure if it also applies to Cho people from your maternal ancestor's village: 汝与文必，日康永郭，伯南宗朝，天应仰子，钦崇世（奕）家，言行忠信，仁义礼智，修齐治平，福祥寿好，富贵康宁。

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Greg,

Both articles were interesting, Taishan Municipal People's Government and The Cao surname in Jiangmen City. However, the only names that are in common with my Cho's family line and the Cho or Cao line of both articles were Yue Kuen(与权), Wen Bing(文炳) and Bi Xian(必先). Both articles mentioned Wen or Mun Bing's brother, Wen Fu and his family line branches off with continuous informations with his clan.

You're right about Zhao (Cantonese Chiu) as the first ancestor, rereading the 2nd page of the Cho's book I see 汶 as the first ancestor, 汶端祖.

I don't have the "generation poem", but from my maternal list of ancestor's generations, this is what I can make out:
汶与(與)文必, 日康以永, 耶伯祖月, 文孟英一, 一一崇乃, 秉家言行, 字. The 25th generation (字) covers the years 1918-1937. If continue, my grandkids would be the 28th generation.

Still work in progress and thanks a millions!

Dragon008