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Post by robnash on Apr 10, 2024 5:15:02 GMT -5
Hi, I received a letter some time ago from an old family friend I called Uncle. He gave me information about three villages in the Zhongshan area that 3 of my grandparents came from. I'd like to know the exact location of these villages because we would like to visit some day.
Here is what my uncle said: Lee village is Hengmei 恒美, Mar village is Shachong 沙涌 and the Gock village is Zhuxiu yuan. They are within easy walking distance of each other and about 12 km from the commercial centre of Zhongshan, olden day Shekki.
Also, was Shekki the old name of Zhongshan? I remember my uncles also talking about a Heung San and would like to know the connection between Heung San and Chung San.
Thank you very much
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Post by Henry on Apr 10, 2024 8:47:26 GMT -5
robnash Your 3 villages: Please click on "Three Villages" Three villagesShekki is the name of a district Zhongshan aka Heungshan Henry
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Post by robnash on Apr 11, 2024 2:08:24 GMT -5
Thank you very much! That is very useful.
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Post by tyuti1668 on Apr 12, 2024 23:24:26 GMT -5
...San and would like to know the connection between Heung San and Chung San. Thank you very much 3 villages above located at a area known as 環城 / 南區 in PRC era. Longdu (area 2) speaker just calls it as "對面海" informally. The proper SK (Why had sunch name www.zs.gov.cn/zjzs/zsgs/content/post_219532.html ) is the main town (where the gov office/ commerce ... located) of 中山. Today's SK (石岐街道) is combied by 中区 & 北区 in 2000... 香山 is the old name. Renamed as 中山 in 1925 after Dr Sun Yat Sen (pseudonym: 中山樵 when hiding in Japan) passed away.
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Post by robnash on Jun 7, 2024 18:15:26 GMT -5
Thank you very much! I didn't realise someone else had replied. All this is very useful!
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Post by robnash on Jun 7, 2024 18:32:12 GMT -5
Are these the same place, but the one on the left is classical Chinese and the one on the right simplified Chinese? 環城 / 南區?
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Post by tyuti1668 on Jun 10, 2024 10:09:24 GMT -5
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Post by robnash on Jun 22, 2024 6:10:20 GMT -5
I have another question. When I was young, I called both my father's parents and my mother's parents "Paw Paw" and "Goong Goong". Was this wrong or could it be that the ancestral villages of Hengmei 恒美 and Shachong 沙涌 didn't distinguish between father's parents and mother's parents? I know a lot of other Cantonese use "A-Ye" and "A-Ma" for paternal grandparents but we never did.
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Post by Henry on Jun 22, 2024 15:19:53 GMT -5
robnash,
For the Cantonese,
Ye Ye & Neen Neen refer to the paternal grandfather & paternal grandmother respectively
Goong goong & Paw Paw refer to the maternal grandfather & maternal grandmother respectively.
Henry
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Post by robnash on Jun 22, 2024 16:45:38 GMT -5
Thank you Henry
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Post by gckimm on Jun 23, 2024 2:06:58 GMT -5
Hi robnash:
Regarding terms of address for grandparents, the I think there is some variation, even among Cantonese people, depending on the area from which people originate.
Interestingly, my maternal ancestors all came from Zhongshan, but in my mother's family, all of the grandchildren followed the same custom as the one you described: we called our grandparents "Goong Goong" and "Paw Paw," regardless of whether they were on the paternal or maternal side. I am not familiar enough with Zhongshan customs to tell you if this was just a family custom or something broader.
I do know that the custom of calling the paternal grandmother "Neen Neen" 人人 (or "Ah Ngin," or, in standard Cantonese pronunciation, "Ah Yun" 阿人) is a custom that is particular to people from the old Taishan County and possibly other counties in the Siyi area. It is an abbreviated version of the title 安人 ("On Ngin" or "On Yun"), which formerly was a title for the wives of some government officials in Imperial China.
The more common way of addressing a paternal grandmother in Cantonese is "Mah Mah" 嫲嫲, although, again, this custom is not followed everywhere. Note that even though the pronunciation is similar, this form of address is not the same as that for one's mother: "Mah Mah" 媽媽. There is a difference in tones, as well as in the characters.
Greg
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Post by robnash on Jun 25, 2024 0:50:54 GMT -5
Thanks Greg!
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Post by tyuti1668 on Jun 25, 2024 1:39:31 GMT -5
Zhongshan Yue is a simple dialect. 6 tones only. Lacks "f" sound ie. very friendly to Min speaking neighborhood. It doesn't care ur grand* from which side. Check the words 方言用詞 — 粵語 中山(石岐) / 珠海(前山) in following link 阿公 祖父 外祖父阿婆 祖母 外祖母
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