Gook Doo District of Zhongshan

[jenninbel]

I am working on my kid's family tree and specifically researching the Chinese side.  My husband is half Chinese and grew up on Oahu.  From what I have been able to track down, his ancestors came to Hawai'i in the late 1800s.  In researching my husband's great grandmother, I found an obituary that states that she was part of the following organizations:

Hawaii Chinese Buddhist Association
Chun Wing Chin Tong Society
Kuo-Ming Tang Association
Gook Doo Sam Heong Society
Kutt Hing Society
Free China Women's Relief Association of Hawaii

The Gook Doo Sam Heong Society led me to finding that members were descended from one of 3 villages in Gook Doo. My notes on this are:

Member of Gook Doo Sam Heong Society: Descendants of emigrants from the three villages Oo Syak (Wushi), Peng Larm (Pinglan), and Kew Tow (Qiaotou) in the Gook Doo (Gudu) district of Zhongshan province.

Oo Syak = Wu Shek
Kew Tow = Kiu Tau
Peng Larm = Ping Lam

villagedb.friendsofroots.org/display.cgi/heung/361

Chungshan -> Ha Kung To (area 5) -> Sam Heung heung -> 3 villages

None of their children put an ancestral village on their headstones from what I have been able to find. So membership in this society is my only clue. Is this considered definitive enought? One of her children is listed as the president in the 1980s.

I can not find very much about the 3 villages. It looks like from Google that the area has been pretty modernized. How do I find out if there is any ancestral temples or zupus? I have to admit there is zero chance I could read them, but I would like to at least try and find them so if I found a way to have them read for me, I could. Or if my children one day find a way, they have them.

Unfortunately, I am not great at getting the Chinese characters to copy.  Her headstone does not have any ancestral village information, just her name in Chinese Characters.

陳氏鄭
My understanding is this means her married name is Chang (Zheng) but her family name (maiden name) is Chun (Chen/Chin).  I am adding all the variances I have found.  Her father's last name would be Chun.  Her mother would be <father's name> Shee Chun, correct?

My understanding is also that she was likely married when she came to Hawaii.  Her husband Dai Mun Chang seems to be a ghost.  References to him are very few.  I was told there was rumor there was a family member that had a second family in China but I have found some evidence that there may have been a second family on another Hawaiian island.  But given that means using alias name coupled with Chinese name conversions, I doubt I will truly solve that mystery!  But I wish I had some confirmation of where he died so that I could find his headstone if in Hawaii to see if there is a reference to an ancestral village.

I would like to find a reference for the chinese characters for the name of Dai Mun. I found a Tai (Dai) Chang - that is what is listed - traveling from Honolulu to Hong Kong at 77 years old on Dec 16, 1937. My guess is he didn't come back. On Nov 10, 1917, there is a Dai Chang that travels to visit "Father, Chang Jok Wai, Kwangtung, Heungshan". Traveling with him is a "Bin Chang" traveling to the same area to visit their father, Chang Tit Yung. How likely are these two men cousins? If married in China, there might be a reference there.  I do feel though that there may be too much going on with this person that I may just have to collect whatever I can find and set it aside. But without the ancestral info on Chun Shee Chang's headstone, he seems to be the only way to confirm the actual village.

The other thing I have found is that I have the "brother" listed as Tai Chew Chang. I found an immigration listing for a Chew Chang leaving Hong Kong, March 29, 1923 with the person in China being "Wife, Lum Shee, Pinglam, Heungshan, Kwantang".  This person has to be connected somehow?

My FIL and MIL are traveling to Honolulu again this summer so I am going to send them a list of headstones I would like for them to try and get pictures of for me.  There is just so little I can find on the Chang surname carrying relatives.  My husband's grandmother (last name Fu/Fui related to Goo) has a lot more information and headstones for me to at least find (although some are hardly readable and not translated).

My goal is to find the ancestral village and to find whatever I can find about them.  I would like to be able to at least track down some information about their lives in Hawaii and put together some references for my children.  That way, when we go to visit Honolulu, there is a lot more context to give them about the area and how they are connected. I have only been once and since we live in Florida, I would like our next trip to be more meaningful for them. I grew up in the southern US states and so this has been quite a learning curve for me.

Am I on the right path?  Any information or gaps I am missing because I am just figuring this out that you see, PLEASE tell me!

[gckimm]

Hi Jenninbel:

First, I want to commend you for your efforts to help the next generation learn about its heritage.

You are on the right track.

A few clarifications. In former times, Heungshan/Xiangshan was a county in Guangdong Province. It was divided into a number of administrative subdistricts called “doo/du.” These included Gook Doo/Gudu. In 1925, Heongshan was renamed Chungshan/Zhongshan after native son Sun Yat-sen, who used the pseudonym “Sun Chung-shan.” Today Chungshan/Zhongshan is a city. One of the challenges in Chinese genealogy is that place names and administrative divisions have changed constantly throughout China’s history and it is difficult to keep up with all the changes.

The way that your husband’s great-grandmother’s name appears on her headstone reflects the way that Chinese married women were once identified in American society: Maiden Name + “Shee” + Husband’s surname. “Shee,” meaning “clan,” is a term used by a married woman to refer to her maiden name. So in this country Great-grandmother was probably called “Chun Shee Chang” or something like that. However, in proper Chinese, the name order would be different: “Chang Chun Shee.” It would also be correct simply to call her “Chun Shee,” without using her husband’s surname.

I did some internet research on what seems to be your husband’s ancestral village. It looks like Ping Lam may now be called Ping Lam Nam (Ping Lam South). But many members of the Chang/Cheng/Zheng clan remain in the villages of what is now Sam Heong (“Three Villages”) Town. I saw references to some Cheng genealogies from the area but not to one specifically from Ping Lam. Still, there could be one but under a different name.

I recommend that you try to contact Chinese American Albert Cheng, one of the founders of the In Search of Roots program that has helped many young Chinese Americans visit their ancestral villages and learn about their ancestors. Albert’s ancestral village is Wu Shek and he is probably distantly related to your husband. You can read more about Albert’s work here: oosyakgeelu.com/rootsalbert.pdf. At the bottom of this page is an email address that you can use to try to contact Albert: www.friendsofroots.org/

A brief history (in Chinese) of the Cheng clan of Chungshan is here: www.360doc.com/content/12/0709/21/4675139_223263204.shtml#google_vignette
According to this account, there are four branches of the Cheng clan in Chungshan: Sai Shan/Xishan (also known as Sam Heong/Sanxiang), Yee Moon/Yimen, Lin Tong/Liantang, and Goo Hok/Guhe. The first ancestor of the Sai Shan or Sam Heong branch was Hang Sup/Xingshi, a.k.a. Jusou/Gook Sau, who moved from Putian, Fujian Province to what is now Chungshan in 1044. Some of his descendants migrated to Ping Lam in the Qing dynasty (1644-1911).

One last note: I discovered a famous actor and director by the name of Zheng Junli (1911-1969). He was born in Shanghai but his ancestral village was Ping Lam. You can read about him here:　en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_Junli. He was probably more closely related to your husband than Albert Cheng.

Good luck!

Greg

[Henry]

Hi Jenninbel:

I would like to add some additional information to what Greg has provided to you - and yes, you are doing very well:-)

Perhaps the Gook Doo Sam Heong Society has records that would indicate which of the 3 villages the family comes from & more importantly the Chinese name of the father or male members of the great grandmother - the Chinese genealogy books will only record the married names of the family/clan.

The Chengs come from anyone of the 3 villages:




Here is a Google map of the 3 villages:




Google Map

If you switch to the imagery for the map area - it does show that the area has been modernized>


It looks like Ping Lam is divided into 3 separate villages:






If you have the Chinese names of a male member of the great grandmother's family, Al Cheng may have a zupu that covers the lineages from all 3 villages. If Al does not have a group visiting ancestral villages in the near future, I also usually lead a group of Chinese Americans to visit their ancestral villages. My next China trip will be during April 2025 - if you are interested in joining our group. Please contact me directly at: "[e-mail] "

Good luck !

Henry

[jenninbel]

Oh wow! I am so glad to know I am on the right path.

My husband's grandfather has no chinese on his headstone and neither does his grandmother. I am unable to locate the place of death for his father (China or Hawaii). And that person has really given me a time of things since I have seen his name as Dai Mun Chang (her obituary). I can find Dai Chang travel records. I can find him on a census with nephews and adopted daughters (one whose parents were born in Portgual?). No 1920 census records makes things hard. The two nephews seem to be born on another Hawaiian island from a Tai Chang. And there seems to be an alias of Tai Man Chang. My understanding is that when Chinese men married Hawaiian women, they would sometimes change their last name to be more Hawaiian. They would take the Ah + Chinese last name (Hawaiian version) and combine. The alias last name sounds like that would be a combination of this. But I don't know if the two men are brothers or the same person and my attempts to track any of these 3 names down and find a headstone have not gone well. They may have travelled back to China and died there. I am trying to find some of the Hawaiian records of birth that were recorded late to see if there is any Chinese on there for any of the males so that is the only path I have now.

As I get more info, I can ask more specific questions of my FIL so that he may be able to shed more light.

All that to say.... as of now, I don't have a male headstone.

[jenninbel]

I think I found a reference to my husband's great-grandfather in a ship manifest. The place of birth is listed as "Wood Shek". I have had this saved for a while but as I learn more and put more pieces together, some things make me go back and rethink things. Is it possible that "Wood Shek" is actually "Wu Shek" from the 3 villages area? I'll be honest and say that I am relying on Ancestry reading the words because it is incredibly difficult to read.

If so, would that make this person likely to be my husband's great-grandfather? The birthday does not match but I do not have a verifiable source for the birthday other than family trees which are.... inaccurate a lot. But I used it as a way to make the Ancestry system give me something.

[Henry]

jenninbel,

Does the name match up ? Looks like the ancestral village is correct.

Henry

[jenninbel]

The name is Dai Chang and the obituary indicates Dai Mun Chang.  I am not sure how common that name would be?  I did find references to his great-grandmother traveling to "Ping Lum" so I am wondering if it is likely they are from neighboring villages and were married?  I have to admit I am trying to not make cultural assumptions about how likely that would have been in the late 1800s.  Their ages were supposed to be 15 years apart.  However, given how my much grandfather changed his birthday to suit his needs (the US Military has THREE birthdays for him in their database and that was for a 1922 date that we know because that was the day he was found as an infant), and given the conversion of lunar calendar to the western calendar, I am not going to assume that dates would always match.  But I don't know how much variance would be normal. 

I keep finding a Dai Chang that would have an 1859 birthday and then one that has an 1872 birthday.  So I am also trying to find ways to differentiate them or figure out if this is really brothers with similar names.

[gckimm]

I agree with Henry about the village.

It would be common for people from neighboring villages to marry. I imagine that the "Three Villages" area would be a place where there would be a lot of intermarriage between villages and everybody would be related to everybody else in some way.

Regarding dates, my own rule of thumb is that the oldest source is the most reliable. When you see something like a birth year, it is important to take into consideration who is providing the information. For example, information from the subject would be more reliable than information given by one of his/her children. Sometimes the children really have no idea when a parent was born and will just make a guess. Some records, like death certificates, may actually be way off because the informant was just a friend or coworker. You also have to consider who is receiving the information. There was often a big communication gap between 19th century Chinese immigrants and any English-speaking people recording their information, including immigration officials, ship crew members, and, of course, census takers.

I hope these thoughts are helpful.

Greg

[jenninbel]

Greg,

Yes, very helpful. I have just not found anything primary for him and my FIL doesn't know much. I'll keep digging. I hope I'll eventually find something! Just knowing how many people misspell and mispronounce my name, I completely understand how much things are messed up from trying to translate!