Zhongshan people from Cheung Ka Bin area.

[mugenpower168]

Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone else has roots from the Cheung Ka Bin district in Zhongshan. Cheung Ka Bin is written 張家邊 in Chinese (Zhang Jia Bian in pinyin). From what I know, 張家邊區 is now known as Torch district (火炬區), although 張家邊 village still exists within Torch district. Older generations may also know it as Duck Do (德都， De Du in pinyin). Here are some villages located within Cheung Ka Bin.
www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=421
www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=422

[Doug 周]

Hi,
Some of the villages and market names and surnames are familiar to some of my roots. Of course, being illiterate in Chinese does not help.
Please private email me if you have any questions
Doug

[tyuti1668]

May 22, 2009 8:58:41 GMT -5 mugenpower168 said:

Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone else has roots from the Cheung Ka Bin district in Zhongshan. Cheung Ka Bin is written 張家邊 in Chinese (Zhang Jia Bian in pinyin). From what I know, 張家邊區 is now known as Torch district (火炬區), although 張家邊 village still exists within Torch district. Older generations may also know it as Duck Do (德都， De Du in pinyin). Here are some villages located within Cheung Ka Bin.
www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=421
www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=422

Roots NOT from Cheung Ka Bin (roots from 隆都 but 張家邊 dialect is very simliar) but some ancestor is buried @ 小隱 due to it's good "Feng shui" .

[mugenpower168]

Yes, I believe that 張家邊， 南朗，隆都 and 三鄉 all speak dialects which belong to the Minnan (閩南) family, unlike 石岐 (Shekki) dialect which is very similar to Cantonese. I was wondering, are all the Zhongshan Minnan dialects mutually intelligible with each other?

May 22, 2009 19:27:45 GMT -5 tyuti1668 said:

May 22, 2009 8:58:41 GMT -5 mugenpower168 said:

Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone else has roots from the Cheung Ka Bin district in Zhongshan. Cheung Ka Bin is written 張家邊 in Chinese (Zhang Jia Bian in pinyin). From what I know, 張家邊區 is now known as Torch district (火炬區), although 張家邊 village still exists within Torch district. Older generations may also know it as Duck Do (德都， De Du in pinyin). Here are some villages located within Cheung Ka Bin.
www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=421
www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=422

Roots NOT from Cheung Ka Bin (roots from 隆都 but 張家邊 dialect is very simliar) but some ancestor is buried @ 小隱 due to it's good "Feng shui" .

[tyuti1668]

May 22, 2009 19:49:37 GMT -5 mugenpower168 said:

Yes, I believe that 張家邊， 南朗，隆都 and 三鄉 all speak dialects which belong to the Minnan (閩南) family, unlike 石岐 (Shekki) dialect which is very similar to Cantonese. I was wondering, are all the Zhongshan Minnan dialects mutually intelligible with each other?

May 22, 2009 19:27:45 GMT -5 tyuti1668 said:

Roots NOT from Cheung Ka Bin (roots from 隆都 but 張家邊 dialect is very simliar) but some ancestor is buried @ 小隱 due to it's good "Feng shui" .

I would suggest the above is dialect is Min not the porper Minan
because
隆都: minnan +some 閩東 word + loanword from proper Cantonese
張家邊: minan /some 閩東 word/ loanword from 石岐 dialect
南朗: minnan + more 閩東 word than the above dialects + loanword from 石岐 dialect
三鄉: Almost like proper Teochew (w/o those loanword) + loanword from proper Cantonese

Mutually intelligible to what level?
The older & lesser educated would try to say in their own dialect & understand to some level. (lesser YUE loanword)
I found that 三鄉 is most difficult to understand other area's dialect because they don't know 閩東 words. From my experience understanding 三鄉話 however isn't that hard (already know how the pronouncing rules work & can guess!!!/ The proper "hokkien" in Taiwnese tv shows also isn't that hard to understand if u find how the pronouncing rules works)

[mugenpower168]

Thanks for your information. I have read that characters like 豬、打、水 are pronounced exactly the same in both Longdu and Taiwanese. If you can read Chinese, you can have a look at this zonble.net/archives/2003_12/389.php My Chinese is not that good but I think its an article about a person (presumably from Taiwan) who returns to Shaxi which is his ancestral home.

May 22, 2009 22:07:03 GMT -5 tyuti1668 said:

May 22, 2009 19:49:37 GMT -5 mugenpower168 said:

Yes, I believe that 張家邊， 南朗，隆都 and 三鄉 all speak dialects which belong to the Minnan (閩南) family, unlike 石岐 (Shekki) dialect which is very similar to Cantonese. I was wondering, are all the Zhongshan Minnan dialects mutually intelligible with each other?

I would suggest the above is dialect is Min not the porper Minan
because
隆都: minnan +some 閩東 word + loanword from proper Cantonese
張家邊: minan /some 閩東 word/ loanword from 石岐 dialect
南朗: minnan + more 閩東 word the the 2 dialects above + loanword from 石岐 dialect
三鄉: Almost like proper Teochew (w/o those loanword) + loanword from proper Cantonese

Mutually intelligible to what level?
The older & lesser educated would try to say in their own dialect & understand to some level. (lesser YUE loanword)
I found that 三鄉 is most difficult to understand other area's dialect because they don't know 閩東 words. From my experience understanding 三鄉話 however isn't that hard (already know how the pronouncing rules work & can guess!!!/ The proper "hokkien" in Taiwnese tv shows also isn't that hard to understand if u find how the pronouncing rules works)

[tyuti1668]

May 23, 2009 0:25:30 GMT -5 mugenpower168 said:

Thanks for your information. I have read that characters like 豬、打、水 are pronounced exactly the same in both Longdu and Taiwanese. If you can read Chinese, you can have a look at this zonble.net/archives/2003_12/389.php My Chinese is not that good but I think its an article about a person (presumably from Taiwan) who returns to Shaxi which is his ancestral home.

Which type of Taiwnese? the commonest mixed form (偏漳) i would say the above word is same BUT there's some places're almost exatcly the same as 泉州/漳州.
If you find that deep 香港的命運 by 蕭若元 also said his grandma migrated to TW & can communicate (I won't believe that story because nowadays the Cantonese loanword are in here & there) but i can said the swear word "x你母" is same as 泉州. The idiom is similar like "dog wants liver's bone" means "things NEVER happen" & don't dream on it.

[mugenpower168]

I'm not too sure which type of Taiwanese. In that article, one of the repliers states "隆都話像閩語粵語的混合體，[豬、打、水]等的發音和台語的發音一模一樣，屬閩南語系。"
I haven't watched 香港的命運 but I saw a preview of it on Youtube.

May 23, 2009 1:07:42 GMT -5 tyuti1668 said:

May 23, 2009 0:25:30 GMT -5 mugenpower168 said:

Thanks for your information. I have read that characters like 豬、打、水 are pronounced exactly the same in both Longdu and Taiwanese. If you can read Chinese, you can have a look at this zonble.net/archives/2003_12/389.php My Chinese is not that good but I think its an article about a person (presumably from Taiwan) who returns to Shaxi which is his ancestral home.

Which type of Taiwnese? the commonest mixed form (偏漳) i would say the above word is same BUT there's some places're almost exatcly the same as 泉州/漳州.
If you find that deep 香港的命運 by 蕭若元 also said his grandma migrated to TW & can communicate (I won't believe that story because nowadays the Cantonese loanword are in here & there) but i can said the swear word "x你母" is same as 泉州. The idiom is similar like "dog wants liver's bone" means "things NEVER happen" & don't dream on it.