|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Mar 20, 2010 18:04:29 GMT -5
I would like to see what experience and interest there is for Genealogy Software and what various people use for Chinese oriented genealogy. Please comment below what choices you are using and/or why you like or dislike your program.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ah Gin on Mar 21, 2010 5:02:14 GMT -5
Doug,
I have voted. I use Excel spreadsheet for my own "direct line" tracing back to progenitor. For more "generalised" trees with many branches, I use Geni.
Regards, Ah Gin
|
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on May 24, 2010 10:05:02 GMT -5
I too have just voted. I used two forms for my purpose as explained below.
For the pedigree line (or "direct line" as Ah Gin put it) I used Excel spreadsheet with the pedigree line on one particular vertical column. The brothers for each of the ancestors would be on the same horizontal row with the eldest starting from the left-most side of the row.
For the case when I want to include all those from one particular branch, say going back some 20 generations, I still use Excel spreadsheet but it in the horizontal row manner with earliest generation recorded on the left. Those of the same generation would be on the same vertical column. I need to do it this way as the number of columns in Excel is limited and if done the same way as for the pedigree line, you will soon run out of columns. It is best to start with the earliest generation first and complete all within that generation before proceeding to the next generation. This makes inserting rows for the next generation at the appropriate places much easier to keep track. Normally I like to keep the pedigree line for a specific current person on the same horizontal row.
In the case for all the interrelated families trees connected to me, whether by blood or through marriages, I use Geni.com to record all the members. The commentaries or details of whatever person in the family tress are recorded in the profile of that person in Geni.
In the Geni group that I belonged, we have the Lee/Li (æŽ), the Chan/Chin/Tan (陳), the Lim/Lin/Lam (æž—), Yu/Yee/Ee (ä½™) and the Huang/Wong (黄) with pedigree lines connected all the way to Huangdi. For the current generations, these are linked to each other through marriages but when going back all the ways to Huangdi, there would again link to common ancestors. However there are others who are linked to our Geni group through past common ancestors and from there downward to the current generations. So if I can find a common link with say Ah Gin, whether by some marriages in the past or common ancestry back (after Huangdi), his tree could be connected up as well.
Philip
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Jul 4, 2010 12:42:47 GMT -5
To correctly view Chinese characters please select [View], [Encoding], and [Unicode] options. Phillip Thanks for the post about how you use software to maintain your extensive family tree data. You also backed up your family tree (jiapu/zupu) onto a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. I hope others can learn from your technique. One of the reasons to use software to manage the family tree is because of the shear number of people (profiles) involved. The current trend is now to include females in family trees, increasing the number of branches exponentially. See: Confucius Family Tree UnveiledI like the idea of using Excel for organizing people of the same generation. What keeps me from using this method is the tedious Optical Character Recognition (OCR) transcription ( COCR2 : A Small Experimental Chinese OCR) of the Chinese character images to computer Unicode to paste them into Excel. Your jiapu/zupu is rather wide and extensive through marriage and blood lines. You use GENI well to connect with other family trees (Chan 陳, Li 李, Lim 林, Yu 余, Huang 黄). ¿Are these five groups using a single Geni account or different trees? I know Geni has the ability of connecting accounts with different trees. I would highly recommend that if you have more than 500 names or profiles on your Geni account (from your posts, I am sure you have that many), consider backing up your data onto another program. As per a previous post, I was invested in Dynastree.com (aka Itsourtree.com) which was an unabashed Geni clone. See: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=software&action=display&thread=1126. The closed Dynastree merged with MyHeritage. I did not like the format and options with Myheritage. Even though I have a Geni account, I had some issues with Geni's advertising and amount of spam generated. A lot of time and effort goes into maintaining and updating a family tree. There is a lot of valuable information and media (photos and documents) gathered by many people across a large geographical and temporal span. If Geni ever closes business, you would have wanted the information archived onto your own hard drive as accurately as possible. Kerry has been an advocate for PhpGedView, and I too recommend using this program (again if you have over 500 people in your tree) Upside: * An open source program which means you own a free copy for personal use. (The Chinese always like freebies  * Can be placed on-line to allow long distance collaboration with relatives. * Can be used as a stand alone program on your hard drive * Well optimized for use with Chinese specific genealogy needs (Unicode, multiple names with choice of which names to display) * You can participate in its development. See one of the things Kerry contributed: How To Display Surnames First * GEDCOM emphasis (Php is a scripting language for web pages; Ged stands for GEDCOM) Downside: * Needs a higher geek level * Many of the main programmers are moving to a newer PhpGedView clone ( Webtrees) which is allegedly faster and with more optimize programming. So development of new features PhpGedView may be minimized * Content Management Systems (example: face tagging of groups of people) is very basic (no face tagging) * You need to rent server space if you desire to have an on-line presence. I currently pay $44/year Ancestortree, about the same as a subscription to Geni. A vital basis of genealogy software (IMHO) is the connection with the GEDCOM. The data entry within PhpGedView constantly updates the GEDCOM and there are built in maintenance programs. One of the main purpose of any computer program is to generate a valid GEDCOM. Consider the GEDCOM the DNA or chromosome of your living family tree (jiapu). The jiapu grows and changes as people die, change relationships, have children, and new data is discovered about people, young and old. To carry the analogy further, all living beings want to pass their DNA to their offspring. PhpGedView has utilities within the main program which allows you to prune, snip, and modify the branches of the jiapu to prevent 'mutations' from hurting its accuracy. I have a post about how to check your GEDCOM using other independent methods: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=software&action=display&thread=957. However, PhpGedView lets you do this within the program. Familiarity with the program allows ease of use of the maintenance utilities. I discovered (3 months ago) that during a trial import of a GEDCOM directly from Geni into PhpGedView, the photos on Geni show up on my computer's PhpGedView program. To my amazement and delight, PhpGedView 'points' to the Geni Web Server and displays the photos (without face recognition tags). You should however archive the actual photos onto your hard drive. Finally, if the geek level is too high, have a younger person (they are almost always exceptional in their comfort with technology) do the configuration and data input. This is a surreptitious way to pass on the torch of maintaining the family tree. Using another program with or without Geni will afford extra protection of your data (GEDCOM). Doug |
|
|
|
Post by leechun on Jul 30, 2010 23:20:31 GMT -5
I have been working on my family genealogy for years and only recently began working on my (Chinese) husband's. I was already committed to Legacy and really love it. At a recent conference I asked them when they would be able to support unicode and they told me they were working on it and hoped to have that capability soon (within a year, when I pressed for a time).
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Jul 31, 2010 14:33:32 GMT -5
To correctly view Chinese characters please select [View], [Encoding], and [Unicode] options. leechun It is important to be comfortable with your software package and I had purchased a license for Legacy a while back and am familiar with v6. I thought that its affiliation with the Latter Day Saints Church would make it more compatible with the LDS developed GEDCOM format. One of the strongest points of Legacy is the source citing function. I have learned my lesson by not recording my sources early into my genealogy voyage, having depended too much on my failing memory. One of the purposes of doing genealogy research is so future generations can follow our current trail and ideas and then expand upon the search. This is where sourcing is vital For those using programs which does not support UNICODE, I have always recommended that people take photo images of Chinese Characters and insert them as media into programs like Legacy. The problem with that: 1. Images are not stored into the GEDCOM 2. Since the characters are not digital but analogue, you cannot fully use the search function. Many Chinese have different names and you cannot cross reference the names (and locations) with an analogue file. Finally, lets refer to your post reply#13 about zupu (族譜) vs juk po pronunciation (as an example for Chinese given names). Which romanization method do you record relatives' names into Legacy? Do you use the current Pinyin (Mandarin), or Yale, or Jyutping (both Cantonese). Chinese words include intonations marks in Pinyin (zúpǔ), or the numbers in Yale (juk6pou2) or Jyutping (zuk6pou2)? Will your program support the intonation marks of Pinyin? Do you use the simplified (譜) or traditional (谱). Or, is Cantonese dying? When you are using Chinese characters directly, those questions are already determined since written characters are uniform across dialects (exception traditional). Where this is applicable, now that you have your jiapu, is how to Anglisize/romanize the names of ancestors whose names you have never heard. I started using Pinyin, but realized that these people are Cantonese and probably never had their names pronounced that way. I tried leaving the names in Chinese, but not knowing how to read the Chinese, I would get lost navigating up and down a tree. It was easier having both the Chinese characters and Cantonese translation side by side helping me sound out the characters in my mind. I would recommend that while you continue to use Legacy, start an account with Geni.com and make it just your husband’s side, using Chinese characters with the tools described in this sub-forum. This will save you work in the long run. Make heavy use of the notes section (ignoring the 'fluff' of hobbies, food likes, etc). Before you make too many entries into Geni.com, generate a GEDCOM from Geni and check that the information you want has truly been exported into the GEDCOM. See: GEDCOM veracityThen, when Legacy fully supports UNICODE, export the Geni GEDCOM and use a program to graft the GEDCOM into a Legacy GEDCOM. Then re-import back into Legacy. Grafting a GEDCOM can always be risky but make backups. This will save you a lot of double entry. You might try to export a GEDCOM from Legacy and upload that into Geni. One trick: every Geni account revolves around one unique unchangeable email address as your User ID. Have extra temporary email address so if you mess up, you can just open another account and re-upload your GEDCOM. One the basic tenets in this genealogy software forum is to make a good GEDCOM, since that is the DNA of your genealogy records. With a good GEDCOM, you are not locked into one program and your data become portable and archivable. Geni tends to make a pretty good GEDCOM. I hope I did not ramble too much nor made my recommendations too confusing. Doug (click on the red phrase to link to the URL) |
|
|
|
Post by leechun on Aug 5, 2010 17:38:51 GMT -5
Doug,
You have given me much to think about - and try to understand! Right now I am using a Chinese name as it has been given to me but I am realizing that this is not a good solution. However, I don't know how to convert from one system to another. The Young family is from the Pearl River Delta so they always used Cantonese and/or their local dialect (Sam Heong).
Is there a resource that discusses these transliteration systems? It is already overwhelming with the variety of names an individual male Chinese person has, let alone dealing with how to write it in our alphabet.
I will also look at Geni.com and give consideration to your urging to store my genealogy as a GEDCOM somewhere.
Thanks for all the help.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 10, 2010 12:51:54 GMT -5
leechun Again, the emphasis is using the actual Chinese character. There is no need to be able to read or understand Chinese to manipulate the characters. From those Chinese characters, you can use whatever romanization system you desire. With the Chinese characters in digital format, you can copy and paste into the numerous on-line dictionaries and translators. This is why for Chinese genealogy, having a software program which can use Unicode (and therefore correctly display Chinese characters as computer code) allows you to use the on-line tools like : Character dictionary - MDBG Chinese-English dictionaryI don’t know any on-line tool which will transliterate a Chinese character into a local dialect. Only Cantonese and Mandarin are supported. My own micro heritage is from the Lung Doo area in Zhongshan, with that corresponding local dialect. Even Cantonese speakers have a hard time understanding the Lung Doo dialect. I used to display my ancestor’s names on my software program only with Chinese characters. Being illiterate, I would get lost whilst navigating my family branches; I could not recognize the Chinese characters. I then started adding pinyin to the display names. Whereas this helped with my Northern Chinese Mandarin speaking branches, it added to my ‘butchering’ the pronunciations of my relatives names from the Cantonese speaking region. As English is my only language, I would destroy the intonations so vital to a native born speaker. So I got the idea of using a standard Cantonese transliteration from forum contributor kerry when I studied his on-line genealogy tree Damper in the WokI have not found yet a good single Wiki on transliteration. I am just a newbie. Maybe someone else can provides links. I just want to reiterate to use Geni to store the GEDCOM onto your own hard drive. You cannot trust proprietary services to be running forever. I preferred the on-line services of the German based Dynastree better than the Los Angeles based Geni. However, please read what happened to me when Dynastree is kaputDoug (click on the red phrase to link to the URL) |
|
|
|
Post by lesthean on Aug 14, 2010 20:57:31 GMT -5
Hello.......I am new to this site and to Chinese Genealogy.I love how you share info and stories
I am interested in how to setup my Excell spread sheet.Can I start with what I know from my grandfather down to my children and work backwards as I gather more info about my ancestors ?
An example of what / how I should set this up would be useful
Thanks
Les
|
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 14, 2010 22:26:21 GMT -5
I'm an old dog and it's not easy to teach an old dog new tricks. In other words, it's not easy for me to learn how to use new software (such as genealogy software).
A few years ago, I entered family info onto Microsoft Excel. My paternal and maternal info goes back to my great-grandparents.
This is how I created my family tree:
* At the bottom, you will see Sheet 1, Sheet 2, Sheet 3. Each sheet (page) is used for one generation of data (a large family won't fit on one page). Sheet 1 can be used for your paternal grandparents and their children. Sheet 2 can be used for your maternal grandparents and their children. Sheet 3 can be used for your parents and their children. Then, you'll need to add a Sheet 4 for you, your wife and children.
* In order to fit everything on a printed sheet of paper, I changed the default settings to Landscape (11" x 8.5") and the margins to 0.25".
* The Excel cells are as follows:
A1 = HUSBAND.
A2 = Married Name. The married name is the generation name and usually applies to males born before 1950.
A3 = Date of Birth.
A4 = Place of Birth.
A5 = Ancestral Village.
A6 = Death / Burial.
A few cells down would be:
* Name of Father.
* Name of Mother.
* Miscellaneous.
A few cells further down would be:
* WIFE.
* Date of Birth.
* Place of Birth.
* Ancestral Village.
* Death / Burial.
A few cells further down would be:
* Name of Father.
* Name of Mother.
* Miscellaneous.
Cell B:
B1 = The name of the husband.
B2 = The generation poem name.
B3 and below: fill in the blanks.
Cell C:
C3 = 1) (the number 1; for the first born child)
The other numbers would be several cells down; use your own judgement where to put it after finishing Cell E.
Cell D:
D2 = M / F (male/female).
D3 = enter M or F for the first born child.
Several cells down, do the same for other siblings.
Cell E:
E1 = CHILDREN.
E3 = Name in Chinese.
E4 = Name in English.
E5 = Date of Birth.
E6 = Place of Birth.
E7 = Death.
E8 = Burial.
E9 = Name of Wife.
E10 = Miscellaneous.
Several cells down enter other siblings and the same things.
Cell F: Fill in the blanks.
* Next, you'll need to adjust the sizes of cells A-F in order to fit everything on an 11" x 8.5" sheet of paper. You may also need to adjust the cells accordingly so it is easy to view. You can also add other descriptions if multiple wives, divorces, paper son names, adoptions, etc. are involved. I used the miscellaneous designation to add anything important or unusual about the individual.
One bit of warning, it'll be time consuming. You can customize it any way you want. Let us know if it works for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 15, 2010 10:01:31 GMT -5
Thanks chumley for sharing your description. Sometimes, a 'picture is worth 1000 words'. Can you and Philip and Ah Gin post or add as attachments images of your Excel spreadsheets so Les and others have a better idea of how you organize the contents within the sheet? Of course 'XX' out any information you want to stay private. Doug |
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 15, 2010 15:04:57 GMT -5
I don't have a scanner at home, but will try to scan my family tree in the next couple of days.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 15, 2010 16:42:15 GMT -5
chumley There is not need to use a scanner, which is for converting analogue images to digital. Your Excel file is already digital. For a Windows system Display your Excel file as fullscreen. Press <Print Screen> on the top right of the keyboard. Then press <ctrl> plus <c> to copy the screen onto memory (clipboard) Open your favorite imaging program ( irfanview is a very popular freeware, but I find it confusing at times) and paste the image by using the keyboard shortcut <ctrl> plus <v>. (you can always click <edit> in the menu section & slide down to <paste> as another second of three alternatives. Using the right button on the mouse is an frequent third method) Save the image file somewhere on the hard drive where you can find it and follow this thread: Posting Photos to get the image into the Forum. Someone else will have to help you with a Mac. I thought there was a way to add an attachment to a thread, but I cannot seem to find that button anymore. Doug (click on the red phrase to link to the URL) |
|
|
|
Post by chumley on Aug 15, 2010 21:08:46 GMT -5
Sorry, I've never used an imaging program. I was able to copy the Excel family tree onto the clipboard, but that was as far as I got. It might be easier if I printed a copy and get it scanned.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 15, 2010 21:47:07 GMT -5
chumley, One last try. I assume you have a Windows Operating Systems. After you have copied to the clipboard, then open Microsoft Paint, which is under <Start> <Programs><Accessories><Paint> You don't need to even know how to use it. Once it is opened, click ,<Edit>, <Paste>. Voila! Your image should show up within the Paint program. Then click <File>, <Save As>, type the name of the file, choose where you want to put it on your hard drive, and choose .jpg as the file type. You are doing very well, despite the 'old dog' you alleged to be  . Doug |
|
.