|
Post by sierratrout on Aug 27, 2014 11:17:57 GMT -5
Shuping.docx (60.87 KB)
Hi Ken,
Please bear with my ignorance with the following questions.
You mentioned that “Shuping immigrated to the US, married surname Huang (Wong) who had one son Queqi / Chengzhao)”. I know from Chengzhao's (later Alfred Chinn's) immigration and naturalization papers that he was born in China. Does this mean that my GF immigrated to the U.S., then returned to China to have his family, and finally returned to the U.S. without his family to subsequently marry a U.S. born-wife? His first wife and first son immigrated to the US via Angel Island in 1912.
How concerned should I be that the names of Shuping's wives don't match the information that I have?
You mentioned a "Huang Di" -- where does he fit in the generational chart?
Do you know who the father of Chen Ben Shen was?
I've attached some other Chinese characters that are from my auntie-in-law's family tree. I don't know if you've seen them or not.
Thanks again for your most generous help.
Deborah
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 27, 2014 12:01:22 GMT -5
Deborah, After looking at the charts of Ken and Philip, and looking at their website references, even with Google Translate active, I am totally lost. You think that after years of Chinese genealogy, I could fly through this information As stated before, I have no Chinese language skills; This may be unnecessary, but I offer this suggestion: Both Ken and Philip are active on Geni.com, and their personal extensive family trees are located therein. Sign up for a free Geni.com account. As a basic account, Geni effective prevents you from searching for other members without nagging you to upgrade to a paid subscription. Look at your Forum personal messages for my posting their Geni home page URL’s. Once your browser has signed into Geni, then click on those URL’s. Go to the top right and +FOLLOW them. Hopefully they will add the needed connecting profiles down to yourself via Geni.You can then <select><copy><paste> the information into whatever archive you are using. I recommend when you sign up for Geni, apply with an infrequently used email address. Doug
|
|
|
Post by sierratrout on Aug 27, 2014 12:13:46 GMT -5
Thanks, Doug. I will give it a try!
|
|
|
Post by laohuaqiao on Aug 27, 2014 13:06:06 GMT -5
I do recommend contacting Hanson Chan, since he is devoting quite a bit of his time on his genealogy. Perhaps Ken can help by signing up for sina blog and send Hanson a message via sina.
|
|
|
Post by lachinatown on Aug 27, 2014 13:39:07 GMT -5
Wow. This is very interesting. My 2 cents: Deborah, guess the original heading page was rewritten from pen to brush. The first and last characters on the 4th column was written incorrectly. The last character didn't make any difference since it can only be 世 (Shi). The first character was rewritten as (木美) / 樸 (Pu) vs. the original 槎 (Cha or Char (Cantonese)). Now everything makes sense. Ken, you did a very good job in helping Deborah. Now you two can plan a trip together. For some reason, we have not included in our village database this village. Now it has been added. chinese.rootswiki.legacy1.net/doku.php?id=references:villages:village_database:chan
|
|
|
Post by sierratrout on Aug 27, 2014 14:46:50 GMT -5
How would I contact Hanson? Does he speak/write English?
|
|
|
Post by sierratrout on Aug 27, 2014 14:53:51 GMT -5
It is wonderful to discover where my grandfather really came from, and thanks for adding Chazhou to the list of villages. I never thought I'd get this close with the little information that I started with. Thanks for posting.
|
|
|
Post by sierratrout on Aug 27, 2014 14:59:53 GMT -5
Doug, Did you write the article "USING CHINESE CHARACTERS in FAMILY HERITAGE STUDIES without CHINESE LANGUAGE SKILLS"? Very impressive. I've tried having several strings of characters converted to English using one of the sites mentioned, and it worked, but I see now that I have to learn how to extract the true meaning of the characters from the random-appearing English words. Should be fun. Thanks, Deborah
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 27, 2014 15:51:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by lachinatown on Aug 27, 2014 18:19:40 GMT -5
|
|
kjhong
Member
Find me on Geni.com
Posts: 87
|
Post by kjhong on Aug 27, 2014 19:24:27 GMT -5
You mentioned that “Shuping immigrated to the US, married surname Huang (Wong) who had one son Queqi / Chengzhao)”. I know from Chengzhao's (later Alfred Chinn's) immigration and naturalization papers that he was born in China. Does this mean that my GF immigrated to the U.S., then returned to China to have his family, and finally returned to the U.S. without his family to subsequently marry a U.S. born-wife? His first wife and first son immigrated to the US via Angel Island in 1912. How concerned should I be that the names of Shuping's wives don't match the information that I have?
You mentioned a "Huang Di" -- where does he fit in the generational chart?
Do you know who the father of Chen Ben Shen was?
I've attached some other Chinese characters that are from my auntie-in-law's family tree. I don't know if you've seen them or not.
Hi Deborah, Your experience of finding your determination to learn more about your family re-igniting is very similar to mine. Over the last few months, Philip and others on this forum have been an incredible help in tracing both my father and mother's family trees. Before that I had been holding on to my grandfather's Chinese genealogy for almost 15 years with only slight clues as to how to decode names and dates, but not much else. As for your questions, here are my thoughts: - The exact sequence of events regarding Shuping's travels between the US and China are not recorded in Hanson's genealogy. But it was not uncommon for sojourners to travel back to China to get married and start a family, then return the with their sons to work. Because of the Chinese Exclusion Act, it was very difficult for Chinese women to migrate to the US and to establish families here. A small number did like my mother's parents. You may be able to find out more about these details from your research at the National Archives. I was able to find quite a bit from just one or two visits in 2000. - With the additional information (Chinese characters and translations) from your Auntie-in-law's family tree, I think there are only two items in your family tree that don't match Hanson Chan's genealogy: 1. Your grandmother's maiden name (Shuping's 2nd wife), and 2. Alfred Chinn's wife's maiden name. The good news is that Shuping's first wife's name (Huang/Wong), his first son's name (Cheng Zhao), and the number of sons with his 2nd wife do match. - Perhaps others on the forum can comment on the likelihood that genealogies keep back in China might get the names wrong for the wives of family members living in the US. Perhaps these items got lost in translation. - The mythical Huang Di who lived around 2,500 BC, was the first emperor of a centralized China and is considered to be the father of of the Chinese race. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Emperor) - Chen Ben Shen's father was Chén Yù Fū 陳遇夫 I know that you already have an account on Geni.com. So, if you feel that we have a good match between Hanson's Chen Shuping and your grandfather, I can easily link your branch of the family to the rest of the Chen family tree on Geni. Once that's done, as he has already offered, Philip can try to create a pedigree chart for your family up through our first ancestor to settle in Guangdong province. Philip already has the part of the chart down to Chen Ben Shen's 10 sons. (See the Siyi Chen/Tan/Chan/Chin (陳/陈) Clan thread.) That chart links to three of Philip's other charts that go back to Huang Di (see Geni.com Family Tree Charts of Chen/Tan/Chan/Chin.) Best of luck and let me know if you'd like to link your grandfather to Chen Ben Shen other descendants in Geni.com. Cheers, Ken PS. If this is a match, then you're the closest relative who I didn't already know that I've meet through this forum. Damon Chin held the previous record as my 14th cousin 4 times removed. PSS. Hanson Chan does speak English. In fact, he's written books in English on Chinese history. He currently lives in the US and went to college here. I'll PM you with his email address.
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Aug 27, 2014 20:54:13 GMT -5
Hi Deborah,
Your ancestry had already been done for 146 generations; starting from Huang Di (born 2,697 BC) down to generation Zhī Tóng/Gee Hoong (之桐), at Generation 146 with respect to Huang Di. Zhī Tóng/Gee Hoong (之桐) is Generation 3 with respect to Yù Fū (遇夫). Chen Ben Shen (陈本深) is Generation 2 with respect to Yù Fū (遇夫). Your grandfather would be Generation 7 with respect to Yù Fū (遇夫). If you want your chart to contain all those from your grandfather downwards, please provide the names (if there have Chinese characters, include them as well), their spouses and photos (if you wish to include them). Send them to me via email. I shall subsequently post your chart in the Forum, down to at least Què Qǐ (鹊起) as they are already in public domain. As to the balance of your chart, it is up to you whether want to share it with members of this Forum, as Ken did. How quickly your search developed once Ken provided you the link! Congratulations!
Philip
|
|
kjhong
Member
Find me on Geni.com
Posts: 87
|
Post by kjhong on Aug 28, 2014 0:12:32 GMT -5
I really must give credit to laohuaqiao for cluing me into this thread. I was searching for the locations of my parents' villages when he mentioned that he knew two other people from the Chazhou, Hanson Chan and Deborah (see siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/14786/thread). I read this thread looking for clues in my own search. Laohuaqiao also pointed me to Hanson's blog post about the village gateway which had the inscription that matched the cover on Deborah's family tree. Without this piece, the match might have been more questionable. It's amazing how little seemingly insignificant pieces can suddenly reveal the bigger picture when they're put together.
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Aug 28, 2014 1:19:30 GMT -5
Ken, It is amazing that how this Forum could at times help each other in tracing their Chinese genealogy. Deborah, From what I gather so far, the fourth chart of you pedigree lineage is given below. I could include the other descendants in US when you provide me the information. The other three charts I am reposting below. If you are from New York area and if you wish to see these charts physically, try contacting Henry. I printed a set for him as he wanted to present them on his brother-in-law 80th birthday. Each chart measures 30 inches wide and 60 inches tall using anti-UV ink on artist canvass. CHART 1: CHART 2: Chart 3: Philip
|
|
|
Post by lachinatown on Aug 28, 2014 1:34:59 GMT -5
Philip, I think Deborah is in California and Henry moved to Arizona.
|
|