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Post by vancouverlori on Oct 24, 2011 9:40:25 GMT -5
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Post by mugenpower168 on Oct 24, 2011 10:07:29 GMT -5
In Cantonese romanisation, From left to right:
å°å±±æµ·æ™é³³æ‘人 - Toi Shan Hoi An Fung Chuen (village) person
陳顯波夫人墓 - Grave of Mrs. (wife of) Chan Hin Bor
終于1971å¹´ä¹æœˆåå…«æ—¥ - Died on Septmber 18, 1971
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Post by laohuaqiao on Oct 24, 2011 13:55:48 GMT -5
I have always thought the numbers on the headstones are plot or lot numbers. Could it be a number assigned by the headstone maker?
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Post by vancouverlori on Oct 24, 2011 14:15:52 GMT -5
mugenpower168
Thank you for the translation. Could you explain what "Toi Shan Hoi An Fung Chuen" means? Is this a place? I googled it, but didn't get anything.
laohuaqiao
Not a plot/lot number according to the cemetery. Have no idea who might have made the headstone. Thought maybe it had some significance to do with the chinese characters.
Lori
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Post by laohuaqiao on Oct 24, 2011 15:06:19 GMT -5
Mugenpower168 gave the romanized Cantonese for names of the location.
In Mandarin pinyin it's Taishan (city) Haiyan (formerly region,now town) Feng Cun (village name)
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 24, 2011 15:09:10 GMT -5
Isn't 706 the plot number?
Toi Shan or TaiShan (å°å±±) is the County and Hoi An Fung Chuen or HaiYan Feng (æµ·æ™é³³æ‘) is the village. Or unless it is just Feng village (é³³æ‘) or Feng something village [there are several Feng ___ villages for the Chinn surname according to the Village database.
Chuen or Cun (æ‘) means village.
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Post by mugenpower168 on Oct 24, 2011 21:01:30 GMT -5
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 24, 2011 21:38:22 GMT -5
Interesting how they use the two different characters like that.
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Post by mugenpower168 on Oct 24, 2011 21:41:33 GMT -5
In regards to the line 陳顯波夫人墓, I'm starting to think her name is 陳顯波 and not her husband's name because according to the site, her husband should be Mr Quong Hing. Can someone explain whether the name that precedes 夫人 should be the husband's name or the wife's own name. I was always under the impression that the husband's name is used eg. 利å和夫人 is the wife of 利åå’Œ.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Oct 24, 2011 23:49:56 GMT -5
Reading through the grave site information, this is what I conclude.
Quong Hing (1853 -1919) never married (according to US law) Violet Chinn ( 1877 - 1971) who gave birth to all 8 of his children, born between 1904 to 1919. Violet Chinn's birth year is listed as 1877 on the headstone but 1886 on the website.
Quong Hing's wife Wu Guilian /Eng Guai Lin 吳桂蓮 (1861 -1926) would have been 43 when Quong Hing's first child was born, was not likely to be the birth mother. Most likely, she couldn't give birth to any children and, in the Chinese tradition, Quong Hing took a concubine Violet Chinn. After Quong Hing died, Violet left the household and all the children with Quong Hing's wife (because she didn't get along with the wife?).
This may explain the origin of Qi Wei Shan Village 旗尾山村, which is a Wu/Eng village, ancestral village of Quong Hing's wife. It was mistaken for Luo village, Quong Hing's village.
Since Violet Chinn never married Quong Hing, his name does not appear on her headstone. However, she was Lori's father's true birth mother.
Does all this make any sense?
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 25, 2011 0:40:38 GMT -5
She was the birth-mother for the following Hing children: Joe John, Bessie, Harry, Tom, Nam Law, Mary, Rose and Frank. In the 1920s, Violet moved to Seattle and started another family. After giving birth to 8 kids with Quong Hing, she went to Seattle and started another family? |
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Post by vancouverlori on Oct 25, 2011 9:03:33 GMT -5
laohuaqiao What you say is my understanding of the relationship. Here is what I think I know; Quong Hing (my great grandfather) was a "paper son" and his real name was Luo Chang Rong. Born 1853 Taishan, Gi-Wei Shan. (from translation of headstone - see www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=24498447)His wife was Wu Gui Lian, aka Mrs. Quong Hing. Born 1861 and died Dec 1, 1926 in Oregon. Her headstone is at www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=24498446, and I have a copy of her death certificate). Violet Chinn (possibly aka Yet Gew). Born May 15, 1877 in California & died Sept 17, 1971 in Oregon. (I have a copy of her death certificate). Was the concubine of my great grandfather. Who did give birth to 8 children, including my grandfather Thomas Law Hing, who was born in Oregon in 1911. Sometime after 1919 she left the family in Oregon and moved to the Seattle area, where she started another family and had MANY more children. I am in the process of trying to track down a relative that can provide more definitive information. I have a few pictures of my family with many of the "second" family members, when they had a reunion back in the early 1960's. I now don't know if Violet Chinn was actually born in California, as her death certificate states or in Toi Chan An Fung Chuen as her headstone states. I was told that often the headstones of Chinese born in America, will list the "ancestral village", not the actual place of birth? I am told that the American middle name of "Law" which was given to my grandfather, as well as several of his brothers, was in honor of the "true" family name. So, any idea where I go from here in my research? Lori |
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Post by vancouverlori on Oct 26, 2011 10:31:47 GMT -5
Can someone explain why some of the replys are garbled and others are not? (chinese characters)
ie:
Posted by mugenpower168 on Oct 24, 2011, 10:07am In Cantonese romanisation, From left to right:
å°å±±æµ·æ™é³³æ‘人 - Toi Shan Hoi An Fung Chuen (village) person
陳顯波夫人墓 - Grave of Mrs. (wife of) Chan Hin Bor
終于1971å¹´ä¹æœˆåå…«æ—¥ - Died on Septmber 18, 1971
vs:
Quong Hing's wife Wu Guilian /Eng Guai Lin 吳桂蓮 (1861 -1926) would have been 43 when Quong Hing's first child was born, was not likely to be the birth mother. Most likely, she couldn't give birth to any children and, in the Chinese tradition, Quong Hing took a concubine Violet Chinn. After Quong Hing died, Violet left the household and all the children with Quong Hing's wife (because she didn't get along with the wife?).
This may explain the origin of Qi Wei Shan Village 旗尾山村, which is a Wu/Eng village, ancestral village of Quong Hing's wife. It was mistaken for Luo village, Quong Hing's village.
I am trying to make a list of translated characters for reference purposes, but many are not showing up correctly.
Thanks, Lori
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Post by laohuaqiao on Oct 26, 2011 11:29:18 GMT -5
Lori,
Some thoughts as I pieced your family story together.
Joe John was only about 15 when your great grandfather died in 1919. Certainly by 1925, and with Mrs. Quong Hing a year from her death, possibly already being ill or frail, he would have been the head of the household and in charge of the 7 younger siblings. I thought it was very wise and responsible of him to participate in the Chinese American Citizens Alliance Condolence Fund, in the event that something would happen to him his siblings would have at least some financial protection. Any reasonable person would name as the beneficiary of the fund the next responsible member of the family, the oldest of the younger brothers, absent of any character flaw or physical or mental disability. That would be Luo Jiu Chun.
Have you checked if there is a chapter of CACA in Portland OR back then? Did Joe John Hing traveled all the way to San Francisco, or where would he have gone to join the condolence fund?
US National Archives and Census are places to look for records of Chinese Americans, especially the Archives' Chinese Exclusion files.
Law is a common English translation of the your surname. Many "paper sons" and their descendants do keep their original surnames as middle names. Most "paper sons" came after the San Francisco earthquake in 1906, but your ggf Quong Hing apparently came before that. He was among the very few who brought their spouse over. Do you know what he was doing in Gervais, any records from old town newspapers?
Most villages in Taishan are single surname villages, i.e. all male members within the village are part of the same family clan, have the same surname. As mentioned before, the available village database shows Qi Wei Shan village as a Wu village, not a Luo village. It may be a multi-surname village. Since Mrs. Quong Hing was a Wu, Qi Wei Shan might have been her ancestral village and somehow mistaken to be your ggf's. Luo is not a very common surname in Taishan, only a dozen or so in the village database. However, there is one Luo village Shui Kou/Sui Hou 水口 that is only mile and a half from Qi Wei Shan. In the old days in China when marriages were arranged by matchmakers, married couples were generally from villages within walking distance from each other. Qi Wei Shan and Shui Kou are the villages to start if you want to do some research in China.
Violet Chinn was from Feng Cun/Fung Chuen which is a Chen/Chin village, according to village database. Fung Chuen back then was part of Haiyen (now part of neighboring Wen Cun Town), about 6 miles from Qi Wei Shan. No matter she was born in China or California, her tombstone would still indicate her ancestral village.
Without passing any judgment, here is another thought. Many young Chinese women in those days were brought over to San Francisco, some were kidnapped and sold as prostitutes. Quong Hing might have paid for her and brought her back to Gervais. From the photo of Mrs. Quong Hing, her clothing, fan, jewelry, and somewhat delicate hands, I think Quong Hing was well-to-do and could have afforded it. In some ways, the exact year of Violet Chinn's birth, 1877 or 1886, matters. Whether she was 18 or 27 in 1904. It's hard to imagine being a Chinese woman in San Francisco staying single at the age of 27, other than being a prostitute. If she was 18 in 1904, Quong Hing might even have had arrangements back in China for a young woman from his region, paid to do her paper work and brought her over to California.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts or speculations.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Oct 26, 2011 11:41:38 GMT -5
Can someone explain why some of the replys are garbled and others are not? (chinese characters) ... I am trying to make a list of translated characters for reference purposes, but many are not showing up correctly. Thanks, Lori It has to do with the way Chinese characters are displayed on this forum website, in what's called Unicode. If one just enters Chinese text, in order to see the characters correctly, the reader has to view the page in Unicode mode (in your browser menu, View, Character or Text Encoding, Unicode); otherwise, just random symbols. I normally convert Chinese text into Unicode before posting, the Chinese should be displayed correctly without the reader having to go to the Unicode viewing mode. |
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