|
Post by vancouverlori on Oct 26, 2011 14:11:19 GMT -5
Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by vancouverlori on Oct 26, 2011 18:53:55 GMT -5
Lori, Some thoughts as I pieced your family story together. Joe John was only about 15 when your great grandfather died in 1919. Certainly by 1925, and with Mrs. Quong Hing a year from her death, possibly already being ill or frail, he would have been the head of the household and in charge of the 7 younger siblings. I thought it was very wise and responsible of him to participate in the Chinese American Citizens Alliance Condolence Fund, in the event that something would happen to him his siblings would have at least some financial protection. I am not sure how responsible Joe John was, as I was told that he lost the family farm, that he inherited when his father died, due to a gambling problem. Any reasonable person would name as the beneficiary of the fund the next responsible member of the family, the oldest of the younger brothers, absent of any character flaw or physical or mental disability. That would be Luo Jiu Chun. That's what I was thinking, so was probably brother Harry Law Hing, and not my grandfather, as he was younger, although in the 1930 census, it was my grandfather Thomas Law Hing, who was listed as the head of householdHave you checked if there is a chapter of CACA in Portland OR back then? Did Joe John Hing traveled all the way to San Francisco, or where would he have gone to join the condolence fund? Yes, there is a chapter in Portland, I have called them and left a message, but not heard back from them yet.US National Archives and Census are places to look for records of Chinese Americans, especially the Archives' Chinese Exclusion files. Thanks, I will look into this.Law is a common English translation of the your surname. Many "paper sons" and their descendants do keep their original surnames as middle names. Most "paper sons" came after the San Francisco earthquake in 1906, but your ggf Quong Hing apparently came before that. He was among the very few who brought their spouse over. Do you know what he was doing in Gervais, any records from old town newspapers? It is my understanding that he owned a hops farm. I have yet to find any verification of that, but it is high on my priority list. Unfortunately I live in Arizona, and these records would be in Oregon.Most villages in Taishan are single surname villages, i.e. all male members within the village are part of the same family clan, have the same surname. As mentioned before, the available village database shows Qi Wei Shan village as a Wu village, not a Luo village. It may be a multi-surname village. Since Mrs. Quong Hing was a Wu, Qi Wei Shan might have been her ancestral village and somehow mistaken to be your ggf's. Luo is not a very common surname in Taishan, only a dozen or so in the village database. However, there is one Luo village Shui Kou/Sui Hou …Œû that is only mile and a half from Qi Wei Shan. In the old days in China when marriages were arranged by matchmakers, married couples were generally from villages within walking distance from each other. Qi Wei Shan and Shui Kou are the villages to start if you want to do some research in China. I wish I could research in China, however, I haven't figured out how to get to Oregon yet Violet Chinn was from Feng Cun/Fung Chuen which is a Chen/Chin village, according to village database. Fung Chuen back then was part of Haiyen (now part of neighboring Wen Cun Town), about 6 miles from Qi Wei Shan. No matter she was born in China or California, her tombstone would still indicate her ancestral village. Without passing any judgment, here is another thought. Many young Chinese women in those days were brought over to San Francisco, some were kidnapped and sold as prostitutes. Quong Hing might have paid for her and brought her back to Gervais. From the photo of Mrs. Quong Hing, her clothing, fan, jewelry, and somewhat delicate hands, I think Quong Hing was well-to-do and could have afforded it. I have been told that Joe John, did "buy" a wife from China, but I do not know if that is true.In some ways, the exact year of Violet Chinn's birth, 1877 or 1886, matters. Both her death certificate and headstone say that she was born in 1877. The birth date on the Find A Grave website is incorrect, and I have requested a correction. Whether she was 18 or 27 in 1904. It's hard to imagine being a Chinese woman in San Francisco staying single at the age of 27, other than being a prostitute. If she was 18 in 1904, Quong Hing might even have had arrangements back in China for a young woman from his region, paid to do her paper work and brought her over to California. Again, the story I have heard, is that Violet was "hired" in San Francisco.Anyway, these are just my thoughts or speculations. Thanks, I appreciate all your help. I am a "fish out of water" with this branch of my heritage. Everything from the culture to the language to the writing, is foreign to me.
Lori
|
|
|
Post by vancouverlori on Oct 26, 2011 19:11:08 GMT -5
She was the birth-mother for the following Hing children: Joe John, Bessie, Harry, Tom, Nam Law, Mary, Rose and Frank. In the 1920s, Violet moved to Seattle and started another family. After giving birth to 8 kids with Quong Hing, she went to Seattle and started another family? I just talked to a cousin from one of the "Seattle" families, and she said that she has tracked down 20 children of Violet's, and their may be more. She said she would send me some information. I got the impression that there are at least two "family groups" in the Seattle area (Fong & Chinn).
|
|
|
Post by lachinatown on Oct 26, 2011 19:54:05 GMT -5
That's a lot of kids.
|
|
|
Post by laohuaqiao on Oct 26, 2011 22:47:24 GMT -5
I just talked to a cousin from one of the "Seattle" families, and she said that she has tracked down 20 children of Violet's, and their may be more. She said she would send me some information. I got the impression that there are at least two "family groups" in the Seattle area (Fong & Chinn). Lori,
Could this be true? Violet was 27 when she had Quong Hing's first child and in her early 40s with the 8th child. She might have had some prior to Quong Hing and a few more after his death, but it's hard to believe 20 more.
It seems you have quite a family history, I'm wondering if other branches of your family tree are as colorful as the Hings.
Since you seem to take this history in stride, I'll throw in one more adolescent male humor. Violet Chinn's Chinese name on her headstone 陳顯波 Chan Hin Bor (in Cantonese) or Chen Xian Bo (in Mandarin) is not a particularly feminine Chinese name. That's why there was a little confusion if that was her husband's name instead of hers. 顯 Hin, as a verb, means to reveal. 波 Bor, because of its similar sound to the English word "ball", has taken on that meaning in Cantonese. As a consequence, in Cantonese street lingo, 波 also refers to the female breast. 顯波 Hin Bor does have a suggestive meaning to the name. Was it intentional? Was Violet a show girl and this was her stage name?
|
|
|
Post by vancouverlori on Oct 27, 2011 1:28:49 GMT -5
I just talked to a cousin from one of the "Seattle" families, and she said that she has tracked down 20 children of Violet's, and their may be more. She said she would send me some information. I got the impression that there are at least two "family groups" in the Seattle area (Fong & Chinn).Lori, Could this be true? Violet was 27 when she had Quong Hing's first child and in her early 40s with the 8th child. She might have had some prior to Quong Hing and a few more after his death, but it's hard to believe 20 more. I haven't heard back from my cousin, but will let everyone know, when I hear back from her. She did seem quite credible.It seems you have quite a family history, I'm wondering if other branches of your family tree are as colorful as the Hings. Not so far ... but then I have lots more research to do, Since you seem to take this history in stride, I'll throw in one more adolescent male humor. Violet Chinn's Chinese name on her headstone 陳顯波 Chan Hin Bor (in Cantonese) or Chen Xian Bo (in Mandarin) is not a particularly feminine Chinese name. That's why there was a little confusion if that was her husband's name instead of hers. 顯 Hin, as a verb, means to reveal. 波 Bor, because of its similar sound to the English word "ball", has taken on that meaning in Cantonese. As a consequence, in Cantonese street lingo, 波 also refers to the female breast. 顯波 Hin Bor does have a suggestive meaning to the name. Was it intentional? Was Violet a show girl and this was her stage name? Having that many babies, I don't think she had time to be a show girl.
|
|
|
Post by mugenpower168 on Oct 27, 2011 21:19:40 GMT -5
Are we sure Chan Hin Bor is not her husband's name...?
|
|
|
Post by vancouverlori on Oct 28, 2011 20:12:07 GMT -5
Are we sure Chan Hin Bor is not her husband's name...? I'm not sure of anything. I got a quick note from my "Seattle cousin" (the one who told me Violet had at least 20 children), that Violet's maiden name was Yip. My family knew her as Violet Chinn (married name). I have found a divorce notice for Violet Chinn from Harry V. Chinn in 1950. Nothing about the name Chan (yet).
|
|
|
Post by mugenpower168 on Oct 28, 2011 20:30:52 GMT -5
陳=Chan(Cantonese)=Chinn/Chin(Hoisanese and Hakka)=Chen(Mandarin)
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Nov 1, 2011 10:30:34 GMT -5
Lori, Your family story is interesting and you have done a very nice job researching your heritage. You don’t seem to need much help studying the USA branches of your genealogy. You have made good use of archival resources, headstones, and official records, and you have taken the time to interview family members. ...So, any idea where I go from here in my research?i A worthwhile research goal is to go westward overseas to trace your GGF’s (great grand father) heritage back to China. The fundamentals are the same: gathering as much data as possible here before embarking on your search. One of the hard things about Chinese heritage research is that there are multiple names used by our ancestors. Laohuaqiao has mentioned the multiple names due to romanization issues (Chinn vs Chan vs Chen) and paper names (as noted before, paper names might not applicable because your family emigrated before the SF earthquake). You seem to know that given names are mixed up for surnames because of the custom of the surnames being pronounced first. Knowing this will eventually help you gather the names to search the NARAclick files. Of course which NARA site to search will depend on which port your family entered. The same concept of multiple names is very important when searching for your Chinese ancestors back in China. Chinese males had multiple names see: House of Chinn:Chinese Namesclick . It will be necessary to find other possible Chinese names (in characters) of your GGF in the USA. Gravestones were one source you are already using. As you interview your relatives, try to find characters on old correspondence, or on the back or edges of photos and artifacts, which might indicate other Zi and Hao names used in China. You might find your GGF's other Chinese name as a signature on the NARA papers. Laohuaqiao and mugenpower168 have transcribed the digital images of the Chinese characters to paste into your library of references. You yourself can do the same with the tools referenced in my link at the bottom of this post. Most useful is finding the Chinese characters of your GGF’s siblings and relatives, since this will help in your search for the jiapu in your ancestral village. The goal of all this is to find your family tree booklet, or JIAPU 家譜click, which I call the Holy Grail of Chinese family heritage research. If you have the Chinese characters of as many of your ancestors, along with the characters of their ancestral village (which you already have), then the search for the jiapu becomes a reality. You do not have to travel to China to find your jiapu. I have used Henry’sclick nephew Tan ShiCheng, in obtaining several of my ancestor’s jiapu; see: How I recently obtained my jiapuclick At the time I paid $300-$500 for the research in each of my jiapu’s . To help defray the cost, I enlisted other family members in sharing the expense. Keep up the good work! Doug To correctly view Chinese characters please select <View>, <Encoding>, and <Unicode> option from the browser <Menu>.
|
|
|
Post by christine on Nov 13, 2011 3:46:41 GMT -5
It says Chinn Hen Buo fu ngeen mou 陳顯波夫人墓 which means Chinn Hen Buo Madame/Lady's grave. "fu ngeen" is like a very respectful title given to women. I usually hear it following the husband's name to refer to a wife, like Mrs. Barack Obama, where Michelle's name is not used but we know we are talking about her because of the "Mrs." or "fu ngeen". These are Hoisan people, so correct dialectal pronunciation is "Chinn", which is the same as Chan in Cantonese. I think this could be Violet's Chinese name or it could be her husband's name. Did she have a later/second husband by the name Chinn? "Buo" is used to refer to "ball" because it sounds similar, and so it has become interpreted as "breasts" but that is not the actual meaning of the character, it's a slang sort of term; 波 means "waves" when used properly (according to the dictionary). I think interpreting the name without the slang would be best. My best friend's Chinese name is embarrassing sounding at first too, "yuk ji" sounds kind of like "meat pig" but the characters are "jade pearl" which is really a very beautiful name. "Hen" in the name can also mean clear or evident as an adverb. So maybe the name is something like clear/evident waves. It is likely that one of the characters could be a generationally-dictated character, so it may not have been an easy name to select a second character for. The village database listing for the Fung (Phoenix) village is here www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Village&id=1556 and it's a Chan/Chinn village. I have come across headstones that list a husband's village on a woman's headstone, just out of the old belief that once a woman is married, she belongs to the husband's family, and can't really claim her native village anymore. I don't agree with it, but just saying it's not surprising. So does Violet have kids all surnamed Chinn? If so, then would that mean her husband's surname is Chinn and her own maiden name is something else? What about the 1950 divorce record? Do you have a Chinese language obit/death notice for Violet? I think a headstone for her second husband/ex-husband may help to clarify things as well. No one would marry someone from the same village and of the same surname. If the headstones have the same names and villages, it's all the husband's information. If they are different, then Violet's headstone contains her own information. And you mentioned a Fong family? Where does the Fong come in? What a mysterious family.
|
|
|
Post by vancouverlori on Nov 17, 2011 18:41:17 GMT -5
Hi everyone - I haven't been on the board for a while, waiting for additional "family" information. First off, thanks Doug for the encoragement and the link to NARA, I'll definately do some investigating here. Also a big thank you to Christine, for an additional explanation of the phrasing of Violet's headstone. Now for the latest that I've learned ... I found Violet's husband's headstone (picture attached). According to the wife of one of Violet and Mr. Chin's children, Mr. Chin's name was Chin Hin Bau, also known as Eddie Bau Chin. (Some documents have the name as Chinn and others spell the name Chin - but she thinks that the correct spelling should be Chin). I am hoping that one of you nice people will be able to translate this latest headstone find. The cemetery was not able to find any records for either of the names above, but supplied the name Chin Boa, as the name on the record for this headstone. As for Violet's children, I now have the names and birth dates of 16 of her children. I understand that she gave birth to a total of 20 children between 1903 through 1933! To summarize; Violet was the concubine of my great-grandfather and gave birth to at least 8 children with the surname name Hing (paper name) / Luo (family name). Then she married Chin Hin Bau (?) and gave birth to at least 8 more children with the surname Chin. My earlier post about possibly being a third family named Fong, is incorrect. She only had two families. Also the divorce from Harry V. Chinn in 1950 that I posted about earlier, is not related to MY Violet Chin as Mr. Chin/her husband, died in 1935. Again, I thank you all for your help and hope someone is able to translate this latest headstone. Lori Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by christine on Nov 18, 2011 1:49:37 GMT -5
Hi Lori, Well done! You have solved your own mystery Chinn Hen Buo is the same as Chin Hin Bau. So all this information is the second husband's information, inclusive of the village I would say. The info across the top is the same Hoisan village (Phoenix village). The large characters in the middle are the name Chin Hin/Hen Bau/Buo. Right column: Looks like it says 终于民國廿四年 -- he died in the 24th year of the Chinese Republic, so around 1935, which matches your information. Left column: I don't quite understand this, I think it is a date written using a lunar Chinese calendar terminology. You might want to explore: secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Chinese_calendarNow the question is: Who is Violet? What is her original name? You mentioned the name Yet Gew? It would be really great if Violet has an obituary in Chinese that one of her many children either helped write or clipped. Such an item (in Chinese) would have a lot of the info you are looking for. Also, if you can get a hold of any of those kids' wedding invitations, if in Chinese, they usually list living parents' names. Red egg/baby party invites too. Heck, even old letters or envelopes addressed bilingually may be of use, if any are left. good luck!
|
|
|
Post by christine on Nov 18, 2011 1:53:33 GMT -5
Hi again Lori, Do you actually live in Vancouver? If so, I wonder if I can pick your brain about a Victoria, B.C. passenger list and what use it can be to trace a relative passing through Canada. Please let me know if you have any experience with Canadian National Archives and passenger lists there. You can pm me so this thread doesn't get confusing. Thanks, Christine
|
|
|
Post by vancouverlori on Nov 18, 2011 19:50:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the translation Christine. Glad that it does indeed confirm what I have learned so far. I have not yet found anyone who knows what Violet's chinese name was. Unfortunately, most of her children have passed on or have dementia of one sort or another. I am still hoping to get back responses to some letters that I have written to distant family members and the Chinese Benevolent Organization which maintains the Chinese section of the cemetery where they are buried.
Since originally posting, I have found that the name Yet Gew came from the 1920 US Census, and therefore would have been refering to the wife of my great-grandfather, not Violet (the concubine/childrens mother), as she (Violet) had left the family by then.
Sorry, Vancouver refers to Vancouver WA, a place I lived many years ago, not Vancouver B.C. (I sent you a PM). Lori
|
|