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Post by douglaslam on Apr 13, 2019 8:03:21 GMT -5
I know Joe Shoong's village very well. I go there just about every year for the last five or six years. Yes, Rose was of Sze Yup origin. Apart from that I can't offer anything else.
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Post by Doug 周 on Apr 13, 2019 8:34:56 GMT -5
Judy, I did a Forum search for you. Here is the link to the 2013 posts about Joe Shoong's wife: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/12055/threadJoe Shoong is a very important person to my family history. Here is a link to your GGfather's site on my website. joeclan.duckdns.org/individual.php?pid=I1124&ged=joeclan.ged You will need to sign in to view the sources. FYI most of the information on this branch of the tree are from social media genealogy web sites If you want to visit the ancestral village, consider looking at the gravestone for any Chinese characters. I assumed Rose had her parents immigrate to the United States for safety prior to World War 2. Please don't hesitate to contact me via private email or my email address in my profile. `doug
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Post by Henry on Apr 13, 2019 10:37:34 GMT -5
Judy, If you are seeking the ancestral village of the father of Rose Shoong, then you may want to check the 2 links to the spreadsheets on Chinese coming to San Francisco & Honolulu from 1881 - 1955 from my previous post in this same thread: Henry ............................................................................................................................................................................................................ Judy, Your great grandfather Fong Soo Hoo probably came to the USA via San Francisco as the port of entry and your other great grandfather and Tam Awana, who went to Hawaii probably came through Honolulu, Hawaii. By the way, many Chinese emigrated to Hawaii from Heungshan/Chungshan/Zhongshan county within Guangdong province. You may want to download the following two Excel spreadsheets for over 135,000 Chinese that came through San Francisco & Honolulu between 1881 - 1955. www.dropbox.com/s/ynniu1qze252jah/AllRecordsPart1.xls?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/e1mj93dk1zxsknt/AllRecordsPart2.xls?dl=0You can search electronically for the names of your great grandfather & grandfather - try different combinations of their names to get a match. If you make a match, it may provide the romanized village name on the passenger list. When you find a record, the first 2 fields are important because they provide the Case Number ID & the Bin location where the records are stored. Then you can notify US National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) in San Bruno, CA just south of San Francisco and they can make copies of the records and send them to you or pull the records for your review if you go there - need 10 days advance notice. Many times, there are photos, the Chinese characters for the village name or romanized village name in the records. If you would like to learn more about how to research your Chinese ancestry, you may want to consider attending the 3 day Chinese American Genealogy Workshop, June 23 - 27, 2019 in Las Vegas. This Summer genealogy workshop in Las Vegas can also prepare you to attend the Overseas Chinese Genealogy Workshop & Tours in China during November 2019. This workshop includes roots researching for your ancestral villages and escorted visits to your ancestral villages in your own private car with driver and with your bi-lingual researcher. I have attached the information. Henry Read more: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/167/seto-szeto-situ-hoiping-kaiping?page=76#ixzz5kzR9UyXR
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Post by FayChee on Apr 13, 2019 22:01:27 GMT -5
I found the Will of Fong Soo Hoo on Ancestry.com, but it does not say anything about his Village......... Should I upload the Will? Fay Chee I also found Fong Soo Hoo family in the 1910 Census...he listed his place of birth as California and parents born in China.....same for wife, Sun (Sing) Fah Quan. They lived in the same household as Yen Den SooHoo, who was 15 years younger and born in China....maybe his brother? So the 1900 Census says Fong SooHoo was born in China....... In the 1920 Census he said born in China and an Insurance Broker.......
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Post by FayChee on Apr 14, 2019 11:37:19 GMT -5
There are no Chinese characters on Joe and Rose Shoongs tombstone... I found alot of records on the descendants of Fong SooHoo/Joe Shoong and put together a Family Tree called 'Rose SooHoo Family Tree' on Ancestry.com (if anyone is on Ancestry and want to view it, just send me you email or screenname on Ancestry for me to send an invitation). Although I have not yet found Fong SooHoo's Ancestral village in China, I am going to see if there are any leads on the person I believe may be his brother in the 1910 Census, Yen Den SooHoo and wife, Lee Yim Hoo...........the reason being that in his Will, he specifically mention his nephew Fook SooHoo, who must have been a blood relative who could have contested his will if not mentioned.
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Post by FayChee on Apr 15, 2019 8:43:29 GMT -5
Hi Henry, I searched through your two excel spreadsheets for anyone named SooHoo and Seto.....then discovered that Fong SooHoo said that he immigrated in 1879 and they don't go back that far....oh well, good practice for 'next'.... In the 1900 Census, he said he was a 'Steamship Agent' and had been in the US for 30 years...so that would make immigration in 1870.
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Post by FayChee on Apr 15, 2019 9:07:41 GMT -5
Last night I sent a WeChat to Wing Tak Szeto of the "Szeto Worldwide Network-Hong Kong 世界司徒氏網絡.香港司徒氏宗親會".
I asked him if he could find out where Rose SooHoo Shoong's Ancestral Village was. He did a search and said ".....the hometown of Rose is Toishan and her husbands hometown of Zhou Song donates roses to the kindergartens in Taishan County, her hometown..... from 1931 to 1949, the "Rose Kindergarten" opened 19 classes with 514 graduates...."
I asked if he could find out what her Ancestral Village was and he said that there are 3 Szeto Villages in Toishan, and he would ask the Szeto Library Chief if he knew.....so I am waiting because it is night time there.
Fay Chee
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Post by FayChee on Apr 15, 2019 12:41:02 GMT -5
I looked through the "200 Seto Villages" book and found 2 Heungs in Taishan City on pages 137-140. There seems to be 10 Seto Villages in Taishan and only Gejiao has the date 1890. Fong SooHoo was born in 1852 and his father, Yen fue SooHoo in 1830 (approximately). So I wonder which is the oldest Seto Village/sub-village in Taishan? When I did a search in the "Roots Village database" for Seto Villages in Taishan, it only found one 'Lung Kong Tsui/Longgang Xiang', but there are 9 sub-villages....
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Post by jasonwu on Apr 15, 2019 22:15:36 GMT -5
There seems to be 10 Seto Villages in Taishan and only Gejiao has the date 1890.
FayChee,
閣腳/各腳/國腳 Gejiao/Guojiao is the ancestral village of my great-grandmother.
Her village is found in the 龍崗 Longgang Region of my parents's hometown of 那扶 Nafu, which borders both 開平 Kaiping and 恩平 Enping.
Thank you for providing the list of Szeto villages in the vicinity. From my knowledge, 蓮塘里 Liantang Li (aka 龍崗嘴 Lung Kong Tsui) is the original place of settlement of the first Szeto progenitor in the area. From there, the clan then founded 屯開里 Tunkai Li (aka 龍崗村 Lung Kong Village). The progenitor's cousin founded the village of 閣腳/各腳/國腳 Gejiao/Guojiao which is nearby. It consists of two hamlets and one new village.
Here are the directions between these villages in Google Maps: click here.
I would be happy to help if there are Chinese characters to work with.
Douglas, where is Joe Shoong's village? Is it anywhere in the vicinity?
Best, Jason
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Post by Henry on Apr 15, 2019 22:54:33 GMT -5
Jason, I have not followed this thread. I always thought Joe Shoong was from Zhongshan - from Wikipedia:[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shoong ] "Shoong was born to Joe Gon Lim and Chew Wong Shee in the village of Long Tau Wan (simplified Chinese: 龙头环; traditional Chinese: 龍頭環) in Zhongshan, Guangdong, China. In that village, the Long Du dialect was spoken so that is most likely the dialect spoken by Shoong. Long Du speakers can generally understand Cantonese. According to his daughter Doris, Shoong sold eggs in China when he was young, and emigrated to the United States when he was 18 or 19 years old (1897 or 1898), without any relatives.[3] From 1882, the Chinese Exclusion Act was in force, allowing only three categories of Chinese immigrants to America: merchants, students and diplomats. Shoong's first place of residence in America was Vallejo, California, where he lived with friends and relatives from Long Tau Wan and worked in a garment factory.[4] " Henry
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Post by Doug 周 on Apr 16, 2019 0:10:45 GMT -5
...I always thought Joe Shoong was from Zhongshan - from Wikipedia:[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shoong ]"Shoong was born to Joe Gon Lim and Chew Wong Shee in the village of Long Tau Wan (simplified Chinese: 龙头环; traditional Chinese: 龍頭環) in Zhongshan, Guangdong, China. In that village, the Long Du dialect was spoken so that is most likely the dialect spoken by Shoong. Long Du speakers can generally understand Cantonese.... Henry is correct. BTY: It was unusual for the period that Joe Shoong, from Zhongshan, married a woman from Sze Yup. The regional chauvinism of the time was intense enough to have contributed to the Tong wars at the latter half of the 19th century.
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Post by jasonwu on Apr 16, 2019 18:35:04 GMT -5
Henry and Doug, Thank you both for sharing the info on Joe Shoong's origins. Especially given that the Longdu dialect is a sub-variant of Minnan Chinese, I'd love to know how the marriage came to be.
Joe Shoong's Wikipedia article mentions,
I also found his Baidu encyclopedia article, which is probably where Wing Tak Szeto found his information:
The lack of mention of Mrs. Chow's maiden name led me to briefly wonder whether it was Rose or Ruth whose homeland was Taishan, but I let this doubt go after considering that the kindergarten was named after Rose, and Ruth was widowed after only 3 years of marriage.
Besides my great-grandmother's collection of villages in 那扶 龍崗 Nafu Longgang, the coastal fishing village and former market town of 北陡 沙咀 Beidou Shaju was also mentioned as a possibility. However, I stayed at a bed-and-breakfast in Shaju in 2017, which in recent years has become a tourist destination for its beaches and seafood, and I was told that the village is mainly inhabited by the Chan clan who founded the village.
I tried to check scans of a vintage genealogy, which FayChee graciously shared with me, for the names mentioned above - that was until I realized that the book was published in 1824 while Yuen-fue SooHoo was born ~1830 and Fong SooHoo was born in 1852. The last ancestor of mine that was recorded in that book was my great-grandmother's great-grandfather.
Jason
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Post by FayChee on Apr 16, 2019 20:08:15 GMT -5
Hi Everyone, I had to work today and am just reading all of the great information since I was here last. Henry and Jason, you guys are fantastic and I sure appreciate all the research time that you have put in. I printed out the Taishan map from the "200 Seto Villages" book and scanned-in the translations.....I wasn't able to accurately transpose the map to the link on Google Maps, but am still working on it.... Jason, from your comments, if I can find the dates of origin for the Villages (Liantang, Tunkaili, Kangshan, Fengming, Cetang), maybe I can hone-in on one that would fit Fong SooHoo's Ancestral Village....I wonder which Seto Zupu contains Taishan.....I still don't have Vol 2 or 6 yet........ Haven't heard anything more from Wing Tak..... Tonight I will continue searching on Ancestry.com... Fay Chee
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Post by FayChee on Apr 16, 2019 20:39:56 GMT -5
Ruth Chow's marriage announcement.... Ruth Chow's death certificate: born- 18 Oct 1905 died-12 Jun 1953 Mother- Chan Yuk Ching Father-Tom Wing Wyne In the 1930 Census, Ruth Chow is listed with her husband Felton Chow and their 2 children - Bettine and Herbert. Also, her sister Bertha TomWye.........so Ruth's maiden name is 'Ruth Alice Tom Wye'......Her Naturalization Card says maiden name is 'Tom'...
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Post by jasonwu on Apr 16, 2019 21:13:51 GMT -5
FayChee, I have a gazetteer which mentions that 蓮塘里 Liantang Li (aka 龍崗嘴 Lung Kong Tsui/Longgangju) was founded between 1736-1795, during the reign of the Qianlong Emperor. It was the first Szeto village in this area, and the progenitor's name was 司徒崙碧. In the "200 Szeto Villages" book, statistics are given as follows: 那扶 Nafu Township: - 屯開 Tunkai (龍崗村 Longgangcun), not noted
- 閣腳 Gejiao, 19 households abroad
- 側塘 Cetang, 3 households abroad
- 康山 Kangshan, 4 households abroad
- 蓮塘 Liantang (龍崗嘴 Longgangju), 11 households abroad 北陡 Beidou Township: - 沙咀 Shaju, 10 households abroad
When I briefly visited the Szeto Library in Chikan with Jeff Lee in 2017, a librarian printed for me the relevant page from the new genealogy books where I could find my great-grandmother's family tree. This was from their drafts, so I do not know what the published page number is. However, I think that the lineages of the 龍崗 Longgang villages might be found in Volume 2, since they descend from a senior branch of the clan.
Here is the lineage that I have recorded:
1. 宣翁 2. 權翁 3. 北堂 4. 子温 5. 明觀 6. 壽卿 7. 德全 8. 義和 9. 觀初 10. 明總 11. 有蓮 12. 仲明 13. 舜卿 14. 丹梧 15. 儒讓 16. 徹相 and 理相 (brothers)
17. 體爵 and 體南 (first cousins) 18. 熙特 (崙碧), progenitor of Longgangju, and 熙堆, progenitor of Gejiao (second cousins)
If we had the name of Yuen-fue SooHoo's father (born prior to 1824), we may be able to connect the dots with the vintage genealogy...
Jason
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