Zeng/Tjan/Chan/Chang/Tsang/Tseng(曾) Clan
Apr 3, 2013 1:20:40 GMT -5
Post by philiptancl on Apr 3, 2013 1:20:40 GMT -5
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Yuminnan, a member of this Forum, is a Dutch from Netherlands. The father of his wife is of Chinese descent whose ancestors, Yu (余) and Zeng (曾), migrated from Fujian (福建) Province to Indonesia. He has been researching the Chinese part of his wife ancestry for the past 5 years without much success on any of her two Chinese branches. The Zeng (曾) side was prominent member in the Chinese community in Indonesia and therefore Yuminnan had , over the years, collected a number of historical and ancestral information from Indonesia which subsequently provide useful clues in tracking down the Zeng side of his wife ancestry. Among his collection was very interesting old family photographs and a whole list of names for past family members from Indonesia.
Yuminnan studied history for a while but finally settled on a career in IT. He had already tracked down 8 generations of his own Dutch family ancestry, until end of the 17th century. Whilst he had a lot of information and names of the Chinese side of his wife family, he could not make any headway on his wife's side. Sometime in the middle of 2012 Yuminnan contacted my dear friend Henry Tom and me directly (through emails) to continue with his search. However what is known to him then is that the Zeng ancestry is likely to originate from Fujian without him knowing the county of origin, let alone the name of the ancestral village. The first task was for us in to ask him to seek out the names of the ancestral villages essential for the searching for the family records; these included asking him to obtain photos of gravestone of his ancestors buried in Indonesia.
Many of the Chinese names that Yuminnan has for the Zeng clans are in Romanized form done in Indonesia using Dutch orthography. For those familiar with Romanized Chinese names within South East Asia, those provided within Indonesia are completely different from those done in Malaysia, for that matter in the Philippines. However among the names in Chinese characters that Yuminnan already knew are for the two brothers Zeng Ru Song (曾如松) and Zeng Ru Bai (曾如柏), and their father Zeng Lian Zhou (曾連洲).
Among the collection that Yuminnan already had was a photograph of the early 1950 gravestone for Zeng Ru Bai (曾如柏), the maternal grandfather of the father of Yuminnnan's wife. On the top part of the gravestone the words "龍山" written at the top. Nothing else on the gravestone that could indicate the name of the ancestral village, the county or even the province. The debate then arose as to whether "龍山" would in fact be the ancestral village itself. My search within my ancestral village database showed that there is "龍山氏" clan in my ancestral village together with the name of its zupus. Whilst Henry believed "龍山" was the ancestral village but my own instinct told me it might not be. For those who know Henry, you do not argue with him on anything regarding Chinese ancestry; you would need to prove your point with concrete evidence. Anyway you don't argue with your master, do you? My judgment was based on the assessment when viewing the evidence probabilistically, and coupled with the fact that a 龍山氏 clan exists in my ancestral village not known to be previously named as 龍山, would tend to suggest that 龍山 engraved on the gravestone is not likely to be the name an ancestral village itself. Just as the Ying Chuan Chen (潁川陳) is a main branch of Chen clan, so could Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) be that for the Zeng clan.
Yuminnan took up the suggestion to search for the existence of a Long Shan clan over the Internet and if so to ascertain what Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) really represents. The search revealed that there was a huge main ancestral hall for Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) been rebuilt in 2005 in Fujian thus confirming the hypothesis that Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) is a main branch and that Long Shan (龍山) could not just be the name of an ancestral village. His search revealed a website for a Burmese Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) ancestral temple at:
www.chinatownology.com/long_shan_tang.html
and a Zeng website in Singapore, wherein a Long Shan branch is include, at:
www.regenerating-universe.org/zengsingapore/zeng/eng/longqiu.htm
The logical thing was to contact the Singapore webmaster regarding Long Shan Zeng clan and the following clarification from him resolved the issue:
Long Shan (龍山) is the name of a branch of the Zeng (曾) surname. This branch started in Tang Dynasty when one of Zeng (曾) ancestor moved from Jiangxi (江西) to Fujian (福建) and settled down at a place call "龍頭山". The descendents of this family were subsequently named as "龍山派". Members of this branch mostly originated from China, Fujian. When in Fujian one could find houses that have lanterns with "龍山" written on them hanging outside their main doors or have "龍山堂", "龍山派衍" written on top of their main doors. Most likely these houses belong to members of Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) Clan.
The webmaster also have web page at:
zengenglish.tripod.com/chan1.htm
that provide the Zeng lineage at:
zengenglish.tripod.com/ZPWC.htm
which leads to Long Shan Zeng branch at:
zengenglish.tripod.com/ZPLS.htm
Whilst all these details confirmed the suspicion that Long Shan Zeng is a main branch of Zeng, but in so doing leads the search for the ancestry further away; there is now not even an ancestral village name to direct the search to. Fortunately the webmaster in Singapore provided a Zeng contact, in Indonesia who might throw further light. The Zeng contact also belongs to Long Shan Zeng and he already has his jiapu for his branch of Long Shan Zeng. As expected the branch that Yuminnan is seeking for is not contained within that jiapu; much as we liked to hope otherwise.
The Zeng contact from Indonesia subsequently found out that the Long Shan Zeng clan migrated mainly to three places in Fujian and that those people with the middle name Ru (如) are found in the Long Hai (龍海) area. He advised Yuminnan to seek out the zupu entitled Hou Bao Zeng Clan Zupu (厚寶曾氏族譜). That is easier said than done. Now at least there is an ancestral village to target for: Hou Bao(厚寶). The location was easily searched and located within Google Map. But for a Dutch, not a knowing to read Chinese or any speak Chinese dialects, to go there all the way from Netherlands and without knowing any Zeng family records are still intact there, would be daunting indeed even if expenses is not a concern.
A poor alternative was for Yuminnan to go back Internet to search 厚寶曾氏族譜. Lo and behold! He found a website that contained the series nine volumes for Hou Bao zupu. On Volume 7 at :
www.ztzupu.com/Genealogy/Details/650
Yuminnan finally found what he was looking for; the names of the two brothers Zeng Ru Song (曾如松) and Zeng Ru Bai (曾如柏), and their father Zeng Lian Zhou (曾連洲). It was then a matter of constructing the ancestral chart out from the 9 volumes of zupu for Yuminnan. I shall post the chart later in this Forum after doing some finishing touches. The Zeng contact from Indonesia and I were pleasantly very surprised that Yuminnan could find the desired zupu from the Internet. I was also very surprised that Yuminnan found out the name of the ancestral village after find the zupu!
Yuminnan, a member of this Forum, is a Dutch from Netherlands. The father of his wife is of Chinese descent whose ancestors, Yu (余) and Zeng (曾), migrated from Fujian (福建) Province to Indonesia. He has been researching the Chinese part of his wife ancestry for the past 5 years without much success on any of her two Chinese branches. The Zeng (曾) side was prominent member in the Chinese community in Indonesia and therefore Yuminnan had , over the years, collected a number of historical and ancestral information from Indonesia which subsequently provide useful clues in tracking down the Zeng side of his wife ancestry. Among his collection was very interesting old family photographs and a whole list of names for past family members from Indonesia.
Yuminnan studied history for a while but finally settled on a career in IT. He had already tracked down 8 generations of his own Dutch family ancestry, until end of the 17th century. Whilst he had a lot of information and names of the Chinese side of his wife family, he could not make any headway on his wife's side. Sometime in the middle of 2012 Yuminnan contacted my dear friend Henry Tom and me directly (through emails) to continue with his search. However what is known to him then is that the Zeng ancestry is likely to originate from Fujian without him knowing the county of origin, let alone the name of the ancestral village. The first task was for us in to ask him to seek out the names of the ancestral villages essential for the searching for the family records; these included asking him to obtain photos of gravestone of his ancestors buried in Indonesia.
Many of the Chinese names that Yuminnan has for the Zeng clans are in Romanized form done in Indonesia using Dutch orthography. For those familiar with Romanized Chinese names within South East Asia, those provided within Indonesia are completely different from those done in Malaysia, for that matter in the Philippines. However among the names in Chinese characters that Yuminnan already knew are for the two brothers Zeng Ru Song (曾如松) and Zeng Ru Bai (曾如柏), and their father Zeng Lian Zhou (曾連洲).
Among the collection that Yuminnan already had was a photograph of the early 1950 gravestone for Zeng Ru Bai (曾如柏), the maternal grandfather of the father of Yuminnnan's wife. On the top part of the gravestone the words "龍山" written at the top. Nothing else on the gravestone that could indicate the name of the ancestral village, the county or even the province. The debate then arose as to whether "龍山" would in fact be the ancestral village itself. My search within my ancestral village database showed that there is "龍山氏" clan in my ancestral village together with the name of its zupus. Whilst Henry believed "龍山" was the ancestral village but my own instinct told me it might not be. For those who know Henry, you do not argue with him on anything regarding Chinese ancestry; you would need to prove your point with concrete evidence. Anyway you don't argue with your master, do you? My judgment was based on the assessment when viewing the evidence probabilistically, and coupled with the fact that a 龍山氏 clan exists in my ancestral village not known to be previously named as 龍山, would tend to suggest that 龍山 engraved on the gravestone is not likely to be the name an ancestral village itself. Just as the Ying Chuan Chen (潁川陳) is a main branch of Chen clan, so could Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) be that for the Zeng clan.
Yuminnan took up the suggestion to search for the existence of a Long Shan clan over the Internet and if so to ascertain what Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) really represents. The search revealed that there was a huge main ancestral hall for Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) been rebuilt in 2005 in Fujian thus confirming the hypothesis that Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) is a main branch and that Long Shan (龍山) could not just be the name of an ancestral village. His search revealed a website for a Burmese Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) ancestral temple at:
www.chinatownology.com/long_shan_tang.html
and a Zeng website in Singapore, wherein a Long Shan branch is include, at:
www.regenerating-universe.org/zengsingapore/zeng/eng/longqiu.htm
The logical thing was to contact the Singapore webmaster regarding Long Shan Zeng clan and the following clarification from him resolved the issue:
Long Shan (龍山) is the name of a branch of the Zeng (曾) surname. This branch started in Tang Dynasty when one of Zeng (曾) ancestor moved from Jiangxi (江西) to Fujian (福建) and settled down at a place call "龍頭山". The descendents of this family were subsequently named as "龍山派". Members of this branch mostly originated from China, Fujian. When in Fujian one could find houses that have lanterns with "龍山" written on them hanging outside their main doors or have "龍山堂", "龍山派衍" written on top of their main doors. Most likely these houses belong to members of Long Shan Zeng (龍山曾) Clan.
The webmaster also have web page at:
zengenglish.tripod.com/chan1.htm
that provide the Zeng lineage at:
zengenglish.tripod.com/ZPWC.htm
which leads to Long Shan Zeng branch at:
zengenglish.tripod.com/ZPLS.htm
Whilst all these details confirmed the suspicion that Long Shan Zeng is a main branch of Zeng, but in so doing leads the search for the ancestry further away; there is now not even an ancestral village name to direct the search to. Fortunately the webmaster in Singapore provided a Zeng contact, in Indonesia who might throw further light. The Zeng contact also belongs to Long Shan Zeng and he already has his jiapu for his branch of Long Shan Zeng. As expected the branch that Yuminnan is seeking for is not contained within that jiapu; much as we liked to hope otherwise.
The Zeng contact from Indonesia subsequently found out that the Long Shan Zeng clan migrated mainly to three places in Fujian and that those people with the middle name Ru (如) are found in the Long Hai (龍海) area. He advised Yuminnan to seek out the zupu entitled Hou Bao Zeng Clan Zupu (厚寶曾氏族譜). That is easier said than done. Now at least there is an ancestral village to target for: Hou Bao(厚寶). The location was easily searched and located within Google Map. But for a Dutch, not a knowing to read Chinese or any speak Chinese dialects, to go there all the way from Netherlands and without knowing any Zeng family records are still intact there, would be daunting indeed even if expenses is not a concern.
A poor alternative was for Yuminnan to go back Internet to search 厚寶曾氏族譜. Lo and behold! He found a website that contained the series nine volumes for Hou Bao zupu. On Volume 7 at :
www.ztzupu.com/Genealogy/Details/650
Yuminnan finally found what he was looking for; the names of the two brothers Zeng Ru Song (曾如松) and Zeng Ru Bai (曾如柏), and their father Zeng Lian Zhou (曾連洲). It was then a matter of constructing the ancestral chart out from the 9 volumes of zupu for Yuminnan. I shall post the chart later in this Forum after doing some finishing touches. The Zeng contact from Indonesia and I were pleasantly very surprised that Yuminnan could find the desired zupu from the Internet. I was also very surprised that Yuminnan found out the name of the ancestral village after find the zupu!