michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Sept 3, 2014 6:55:59 GMT -5
Hi phillip, thank you for the reply. I have looked here and there, you are right, it seems very hard to find ancestral record from the internet. I guess I have to wait till next year till I can start investigating further.
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Post by philiptancl on Sept 3, 2014 11:04:39 GMT -5
Hi Michel
In the meantime I would suggest that you seek out the Shi (施) clan in Longxi that has the same generation names. For that may I offer the following suggestions:
1. I can provide you the contact in Xiamen who may be able to assist you in doing that. She was originally from Indonesia who returned to China during that difficult time during Soeharto era. She can communicate in Indonesian and, I think, in Dutch as well, besides in Chinese and Minnan dialect. Ask her whether there is a surname reference book for the county which Longxi is located. If one is available I would like to purchase a copy as well. From that reference book, it may cut down a lot of time in searching to locate the relevant Shi clan ancestral records. If the reference book is not available, see if she do the search for you without you going there. 2. Use the services of Huihanlie of My China Roots for the above. That may be cost more if he needs to do the search by going there as he may not yet have a local to undertake it.
Once you have the ancestral records, you would then need the names of your ancestors to search where in the tree you should be placed. Since you know the generation names and hence the the generations they are in, it would reduce the search within your ancestral records quite considerably.
I am not saying that getting your genealogy from the Internet is not possible. I could get my complete ancestral records and more from the website (http://www.nanchens.com/) that my ancestral village maintains. Unfortunately or otherwise, I knew of that a few years after I had completed the difficult process in trying to make sense and digitizing words from my branch clan Zupu that I obtained in 2007.
Philip
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Sept 3, 2014 18:46:20 GMT -5
hi Phillip, thank you for your tips. I definitely would be glad to contact the person in xiamen and see if she can help me (will ask her if there is any surname reference book). I am quite interested to take huihanlie's service, but since I'm cash strapped student at the moment, I will hold it until I get a job after graduate next year. I found this in other thread: familysearch.org/search/collection/1787988"China, Collection of Genealogies, 1239-2013" At first I like, woah! I clicked the shi surname and fujian, unfortunately the fujian province only contains Jinjiang county. oh well
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Post by philiptancl on Sept 4, 2014 1:48:32 GMT -5
Hi Michel,
I just forward the contact to you via personal message in this Forum. Write to her in Dutch or Indonesian or Chinese. English could be more problematic. In your email I suggest you provide the following:
1. Provide her your Indonesian background as you mentioned in this Forum.
2. Tell her that your surname is Shi (施) and that your ancestors originated from ancestral village is in Longxi (龍溪).
3. Give her the names of your ancestors in Romanized form and where applicable the Chinese characters. She may be able to provide the Chinese characters in for the others.
4. Give her the sequence of the generation names.
5. Attach the family photo you posted. Who knows, she may recognize a face in it. She was from Indonesia.
6. Ask her whether she would be able to locate the name of Shi (施) clan and zupu in Longxi (龍溪) area that has the sequence of generation names. That is: 和, 意, 德, 忠, 良,恩.
7. Refer her to the names of the surnames reference books for the four counties in Fujian I mentioned in the Forum. That is 永春县姓氏志, 安溪姓氏志, 德化县姓氏志 and 惠安姓氏志,第一辑 Ask her a whether a similar surname reference books are now published other counties in Fujian; especially for the county in which Longxi is located. Such reference book could determine the answers in item 6.
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Mar 27, 2015 10:25:57 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I posted this from Makassar, indonesia. I just met my uncle and aunty and we talked a lot about our findings.
First I got the Chinese character of my great grandfather's name, Sie ho long:施荷農
Hopefully I will visit his grave tomorrow, the grave is fortunately still in good condition.
Also, I just received information from my aunt that she found the name of this person great grandfather:施調庚. / 施調賡
If you Google the name, the first result shows he was a politician who graduated from hanlin academy.
I twice heard stories that we were hanging people. Turned out it referred hanlin yuan.
Will keep you updated
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liuyao
Member
Geni is the future!
Posts: 43
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Post by liuyao on Mar 27, 2015 16:26:39 GMT -5
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Mar 27, 2015 19:11:13 GMT -5
Hi liuyao, thank you for this. But the book doesn't seem available at google books, how do you download this? Also, my aunt said shi tiao geng is Sie ho long's grandfather. Now it adds more questions as I need to know Sie ho long's grandfather. I also found letters which I cannot read, will post them in a bit
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Mar 28, 2015 5:16:15 GMT -5
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liuyao
Member
Geni is the future!
Posts: 43
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Post by liuyao on Mar 28, 2015 8:24:13 GMT -5
Maybe some Google books are only available in the US? I'm not sure. I'll probably just enter the relevant names on Geni.com, and post the source there. The letters are a little blurred. The third one is an authorization for dealing with shi estate properties, which indirectly confirms your relation with 施調賡. See this blog post for some photos of the neighborhood: blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_7d2df7980101f1mr.html (The letter says no. 92 on that street. From the blog, no. 98 appears to be the ancestral hall, honoring 施光缵 the progenitor that migrated to Fujian in Tang dynasty.)
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 28, 2015 12:07:47 GMT -5
michel, Congratulations. You have moved well past my limited abilities to assist. You are studying your Chinese documents and have interviewed your elders. These were probably the same methods you used to uncover your Dutch genealogy. Regardings Google Books. I believe liuyao is correct. Because of various countries copyright laws and agreements, Google Books is only available in the USA and certain other countries. There are hacks to download Google Books if you convince someone with a USA IP address to access Google Books. I have also individually screen scraped each page, but that is rather labor intensive. Of course you can also use a VPN to spoof a USA IP address from your home country.
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Post by FayChee on Mar 28, 2015 21:22:52 GMT -5
Hi All, After reading about the Google Books site, I went there and downloaded the book in PDF format, then put it in My Drive. Here is the link to the PDF, please let me know if it works. Thanks, Fay Chee drive.google.com/file/d/0B7izmDAFWsz-REw3MEZhdTluOGM/view?usp=sharingP.S. I tried the link and it makes you download the PDF to your computer, but it did open and was 1837 pages of Chinese writing that looks like a Zupu or Jiapu. I couldn't download it using the AOL browser (Internet Explorer), but had to use the Chrome browser. There seems to be alot more of these Zupus on Google Book, so let me know if you want me to download more........ It's so cold here on this 7th day of Spring and they are still predicting two more snow events! I'm going to freeze doing Ching Ming.........
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Mar 30, 2015 7:45:58 GMT -5
hi everyone, thank you for the reply. fay, thank you for the reupload, I will download and look at it. and liuyao thank to copy all the relevant names to geni.com I will check them out and recheck with the zupu. I really appreciate the help.
I also have two more addresses from the letters which I will post them a bit later.
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Mar 30, 2015 22:37:46 GMT -5
here are the addresses: www.dropbox.com/s/8jsha2pctj1t3p0/DSC02387.JPG?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/d5znjpfze7oqsnv/DSC02389.JPG?dl=0and here are the letters, in better resolution if someone still wants to read (planning to translate it into english) www.dropbox.com/s/1janfe0f7u26x58/DSC02394.JPG?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/cx8peoo75vavxea/DSC02391.JPG?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/gd5guwqz21amd8u/DSC02392.JPG?dl=0also, can someone help me to point the google map of the place? I just visited that blog and looking the pictures of my ancestral town. actually I'm little sad that it looks like incredibly underdeveloped. I can imagine the people there are quite poor compared to other areas. edit: this one? www.google.co.id/maps/place/92+Xin+Hang+Jie,+Longwen+Qu,+Zhangzhou+Shi,+Fujian+Sheng,+China,+363000/@24.5076853,117.6695742,404m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x341476eb7fdce9d9:0xcd847a2401493e80!2s92+Xin+Hang+Jie,+Longwen+Qu,+Zhangzhou+Shi,+Fujian+Sheng,+China,+363000!3b1!3m1!1s0x341476eb7fdce9d9:0xcd847a2401493e80?hl=en
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liuyao
Member
Geni is the future!
Posts: 43
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Post by liuyao on Mar 31, 2015 13:38:59 GMT -5
Don't feel sad! If you wanted to see where your ancestors once lived, that's as close as it gets. It does need some serious maintenance for sure, but considering the monstrous high-rises surrounding the neighborhood, you should feel lucky it hasn't been demolished yet. Zhangzhou was after all a sizable city, though apparently it was eclipsed by the foreign settlements in Xiamen (Amoy) soon after 1840s.
The letters are more clear this time. So your great-grandfather was indeed 施荷農,your grandfather 施貽銓, who was authorizing 施德勇 (a grandson of the elder brother of 施荷農) to deal with the properties at No.92 of 新行街. The google map points to the right location, though to me the satellite image does not align with the street marks. If you look closely at the major roads you can figure out the misalignment.
p.s. I should say that the google book is not a zupu, but a compilation of the ancestries (and close relatives) of those who obtained jinshi degree in the year of 1883. The one for 施調賡 only takes 10 pages. It was very kind of Fay to take the trouble downloading and reuploading to her drive. I'll see if I can make a 10-page document of it.
p.p.s. Regarding the two addresses: the first one is just No.92 of 新行街, while the second one points to a lady named 施如蓮 with address in Hong Kong (and on the bottom appears another name 豔冰).
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michel
Member
I am a dutch-chinese-indonesian from 施 and de wilde family
Posts: 28
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Post by michel on Apr 1, 2015 10:15:45 GMT -5
liuyao, thank you very much for all the help. I really appreciate if you upload only the part is relevant to me. I have downloaded the pdf and it feels like reading scrolls from ancient time that I impossibly can read . also thanks to write all the chinese characters in geni.com. I have copied most of the relevant data to my personal family tree although now I'm kinda confused... how far you will maintain your family tree? do you think it's necessary to track down all of our ancestors' lineage? It seems all the mystery has been solved except 施荷農's father. yes, 施貽銓 is my grandfather. He passed away in makassar in 2005, that's why I visited makassar and interviewed the elders before it's too late. it seems the only thing I can do now is waiting for my aunt to visit this city on april. She said she will establish contact with 施德勇 so we can visit our city easily in the future. I just hope he can speak english though honestly I feel glad asking the questions here. it feels surreal that all the mystery of my family is solved within a month! thank you for all the help everyone. I will post this thread once I got new story or visiting that city.
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