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Post by nmahelona on Jul 14, 2015 2:22:10 GMT -5
I was given this document by my cousin. It shows the family names (Jay) of my great grandfather, grandfather and aunt (my mom's sister) with the ancestral village, sub district, district (county) and province. I have not been able to successfully identify what the original family name is. I believe Jay was the name that was given to my great grandfather (based on the pronunciation) when he immigrated to Hawaii (late 1880's). Using this document with the family character, can someone help me identify what my actual family name is? I would also be very interested in contacting the appropriate village chief and be able to acquire a copy of my family genealogy book. Thank you, Nathan Mahelona  |
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Post by twoupman on Jul 14, 2015 10:15:29 GMT -5
Nathan, Here is the information per your attachment: Grandfather 謝河芳 Xie Hefang/Jeh Hoh Fong (surname 謝 [Jay]) Father 謝昌 Xie Chang/Jeh Cheung Self 謝金善 Xie Jinshan/Jeh Gam Sihn Ancestral Village 廣東省中山市三鄉 (GPS: 22.358031, 113.440702) Today it is called Sanxiangzhen/Saam Heung Jan (三鄉鎮) in Zhongshan/Jung Saan Prefecture twoupman houseofchinn.com |
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Post by douglaslam on Jul 14, 2015 18:52:19 GMT -5
I have been calling on 三鄉 in the last three years. Regular visitors to this Forum would know the friendship I forged with our Peruvian member kaluosima, or Carlos' extended family in 三鄉. BTW Carlos is now doing a higher degree in Melbourne, Australia.
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Post by nmahelona on Jul 15, 2015 1:25:23 GMT -5
twoupman,
Thank you very much for the quick reply and especially for providing the information/translation on my family names and ancestral village.
Nathan
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Post by nmahelona on Jul 15, 2015 1:35:29 GMT -5
Douglas,
Do you have any information on how to acquire a family genealogy book for 三鄉 ?
Nathan
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Post by douglaslam on Jul 15, 2015 6:33:10 GMT -5
Nathan, the information you provided is very sketchy. There is no village name given. That said, it is still possible to find the Jay family village if there is one or find the village(s) hosting more than one family names, Jay included.
Family or clan genealogy books are not always available because Mao did such a good job in destroying them. Let's hope yours is not one of them.
三鄉 is a provincial centre, the hub of many villages. The Jay family name village is just one of many. Therefore there is no one comprehensive genealogy book to cover the whole township.
Douglas
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Post by lachinatown on Jul 15, 2015 9:55:29 GMT -5
Nathan, according to the Village Database, there are at least 7 villages in Zhongshan that are identified as having people with your Jay surname.
To your question "what the original family name is", do you know why your cousin had written "He took the surname ...". Was there evidence that the surname was changed?
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Post by twoupman on Jul 15, 2015 16:15:38 GMT -5
The “he” in the sentence “He took the surname 謝, ……” refers to Sheng Bo (申伯). It relates to the origin of surname Xie (謝) which was derived from ancient Xieguo (謝國) located in present-day Tanghexian (唐河縣) in Nanyang Prefecture (南陽市) in southern Henan Province (河南省). The adoption of Xie (謝) surname occurred after the destruction of Xieguo (謝國) nearly 3,000 years ago by King Zhou Xuan (周宣王) of the Zhou Dynasty (周朝). Historically, it was Sheng Bo’s (申伯) descendants who adopted Xie ((謝) as their surname in remembrance of Xieguo (謝國) after its demise. twoupman housofchinn.com |
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Post by nmahelona on Jul 15, 2015 22:06:39 GMT -5
twoupman, thank you for the surname clarification issue.
Nathan
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Post by nmahelona on Jul 15, 2015 22:27:52 GMT -5
lachinatown, do you have a link to the Village Database that you are referring to with the 7 villages in Zhongshan? Hopefully twoupman's reply answers the surname question. I'm not sure if there was a surname change which is why I was inquiring about the surname character in hopes of finding out what the actual family name is. I have not had any success with locating/confirming my ggfather's name (Jay) on any U.S. Census records (prior to 1910), Immigration records (1880's to early 1890's), ship's manifest, etc. So, I was assuming there could have been a surname change.
Nathan
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Post by nmahelona on Jul 15, 2015 22:35:06 GMT -5
Douglas, thanks for the insight and information. I was always told that if I had the surname character, I would be able to locate the ancestral village. I am finding out that this may not necessarily be the case.
Nathan
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Post by lachinatown on Jul 15, 2015 23:20:32 GMT -5
Nathan, I think you are confused with English spellings of the surname. That why we always go with the Chinese character. So "Jay" was given or spelled out at immigration or when official documents were produced. 謝 Der and Tse are two most common romanization of the surname. [Maybe that's what you meant by the original surname. So instead of using "Jay", you should try to use Der and Tse.] The villages for Zhongshan or ChungShan (for us Cantonese) is at Village Database link (You have to select the Der or Tse surname to lead you to the correct page) The database listed 7 villages, but the 3 villages located and mentioned in the "谷都 subdistrict" are not included. The 3 villages are Wushi 烏石, Pinglan 平嵐, and Qiaotou 橋頭 (in Pinyin). So follow the coordinates provided above and you should be able to locate the villages, just southwest of the coordinates (shown in simplified Chinese characters). Hopefully Douglas Lam is familiar with these villages and find someone to help him with your family information. What makes hard is names are shown at certain level of the map. As far as the names, Chinese characters have been simplified, and there are differences with mandarin and Cantonese or other dialects. |
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Post by twoupman on Jul 16, 2015 10:06:44 GMT -5
Nathan, May I make a suggestion? If your great-grandfather is buried in Hawaii can you take a photo of his tombstone as it likely would have Chinese inscription on it which will show his full name and village. twoupman houseofchinn.com |
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Post by nmahelona on Jul 17, 2015 1:59:05 GMT -5
lachinatown, thanks for the insights on the English spellings of the surname. That is what I meant by the original surname. This has been very enlightening. I will do more searching using Der. I've done some searching using Tse, but have not had any luck.
I used the Village Database link and searched Der/Tse under Chung Shan, but I could not find the listed 7 villages or the 3 villages, Wushi 烏石, Pinglan 平嵐, and Qiaotou 橋頭 (in Pinyin). Any further insight? Thanks.
twoupman,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have not had much luck finding the grave site of my ggfather. I will have to do a grave site search using Der and Tse.
Nathan
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yiat
Member
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Post by yiat on Jul 19, 2015 23:28:46 GMT -5
Hi,
If I were to go backpacking around a county/township (Hushanzhen in Yongchun, Quanzhou, Fujian), what are the chances of me locating my grandfather's village?
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