Looking for Tie Sing's ancestral village

[dragon008]

Hi all,

I'm helping my friend, Mr. Soo Hoo, finds Tie Sing's village. Tie Sing, also known as Lim Wee Don, 林偉赞, was born in Toishan (around 1865) and pass away (1918) in San Benito, California. His death certificate indicated his embalmed body was sent to his village for final burial, via Hong Kong (the village name was not listed).

He worked as a cook for the U.S. Geological Survey for 21 years. In 1899, a Yosemite National Park's mountain peak was named in his honor, Sing Peak. Tie Sing may be a 'paper name', but we have information that he's of the Yee clan, thus Yee Tie Sing.

The 1906 U.S. Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists from Hong Kong listed Tie Sing's last residence as Hock Wan, San Ning. Hock Wan, in the phonetic Cantonese, can be written in a multitude of Chinese characters, but this is all we have for the village name. Using the Friends of Roots' Village DB, under (余/Yee) we found two similar phonetic sounding Hoc Wan villages, 學環 and 鶴灣, both in the Dik Hoi (荻海) heung. Another possibility, is Hang Hou (坑口), also in the same Dik Hoi area, may be Tie Sing’s mother village.

I have glanced at both the Yu Shaoxiantang Genealogy and Yee Chew Yin’s and they’re a bit challenging for my second grade-level Chinese. And without the Chinese characters names for Tie Sing’s father, grandfather, as well as village names, we know it’s a longshot in finding Tie Sing’s village.

We’re hoping for someone who may recognize Hock Wan, San Ning (or Sunning, now called Taishan) be able to offer us a little insight.

Thank you very much in advance.

Dragon008

[gckimm]

Hi:

I have been searching through the Yu Shaoxiantang Genealogy on the Family Search site but it is slow going. It does list people originating in Toishan.

I wonder if you have found any information about Tie Sing's brother, Loy Yee, or his wife, Lee Sing.

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Greg,


In 1922, in the Superior Court of California, Probate proceedings, Lee Sing, Tie Sing’s wife, appointed Loy Yee, as her power of attorney. Also, Loy Yee represented Me Lan and Mon Wah, children of Lee Sing and Tie Sing, as Guardian of the estate of Tie Sing.

Neither Lee Sing, Me Lan and Mon Wah came to the United States.

Loy Yee, Tie Sing’s brother, resided in San Francisco, CA and worked in the laundry business.

[chinesefishermen]

Hello,
We are very interested in the Tie Sing research.  The Chinese Historical Society of Southern California has organized a pilgrimage to Wawona for the past ten years.  We have
some research materials related to Tie Sing that we are happy to share and collaborate with this research. 

Linda

[Henry]

Hi Linda,

What kind of research material do you have to share ?

Any Chinese characters for the names of Tie Sing & Loy Yee or for the children Tie Sing.

Has anybody checked withe the Tung Wah Hospital in Hong Kong about the shipment of Tie Sing's body back to his village?

Henry

[chinesefishermen]

Hi Henry,
We have the probate record that was previously mentioned, and Tie Sing's (Lim Wee Don) abbreviated immigration file from 1913. This includes a picture and his signature in Chinese.  We also have a request for a duplicate return certificate (#74997) from 1915. All of these files are in Dropbox, and we are happy to share.  

How do we conduct research in the Tung Wah Hospital files?  

Linda

[gckimm]

Hi Linda:

It would be helpful if we could see the signature. Could you post it here?

Thanks.

Greg

[chinesefishermen]

Hi Greg,
Here you go! I hope this worked.

Linda

[gckimm]

Hi Linda:

Thank you. The image is nice and clear. Unfortunately, he signed using his "paper name" (Lim Wee Don 林偉贊) rather than his real name. So we still do not know for sure the correct characters. In Chinese articles on the internet, the name Tie Sing is written as 泰星 (pronounced "Tai Sing" in Cantonese) but I am looking for confirmation that this was really his name and not just someone's guess based on the pronunciation.

I will continue to search through the genealogy.

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Henry,

We didn’t check the Tung Wah Hospital in Hong Kong about the Shipment of Tie Sing’s back to his village, but did looked at FamilySearch.org.

Julie, Genealogy Librarian and I examined FamilySearch.org’s Tung Wah Hospital’s Register of Interments on repatriation of bones. The deceased’s bones shipped to the Tung Wah Hospital’s Coffin Home (Hong Kong), then forwarded to the deceased’s ancestral village. The search for any information on Tie Sing was unsuccessful.

However, Julie did found a news article that may be of interest (it describe Tung Wah archives that provided some background information:

www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDM-RSLT-C?i=934&cat=573741

[Henry]

Hi Linda, Dragon008, & Gregg,

I am asking a friend that knows the people at the Tung Wah Hospital and asked if they could check on Tie Sing's body, which according to the reported information that his body was embalmed. I believe that the Tung Wah Hospital typically handled the bones - an embalmed body may have been rather unusual and noteworthy.

I will let you know what I find out. Please send the DropBox link to "[e-mail]" and I will review it for possible clues.

I do have a question, I read that Tie Sing was born in the US, so why would he be traveling as a paper son and why would they be sending his body back to China at a considerable expense in those days.

As Greg pointed out, do we have any information on his brother Loy Yee ?

The probate documents have any Chinese characters for the names of Tie Sing, Loy Yee, or Tie Sing's son ?

Henry

[gckimm]

Hi Henry:

It is possible that Tie Sing, born in the U.S., was the son of a "paper son," requiring him to travel under his "official" name. Even today, of course, there are many Chinese Americans who bear false surnames that are the legacy of this sad chapter in American history.

Many Chinese American families, if they had the inclination and the financial means to do so, sent the remains of relatives--even those born in the U.S.--back to China for burial. I think this practice continued into the 1930s. For example, the remains of my mother's maternal uncle (died 1921) were sent to China for burial in 1931, even though he was born in San Francisco in 1886. The remains of his mother (born in China) were sent at the same time. In later years, my grandmother, fearful that the graves of her mother and brother had been desecrated, said that sending the bones of her mother and brother back to China was a mistake. A couple of years ago, a My China Roots investigator told me that the village cemetery was indeed gone.

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Henry,

I've looked over the probate papers and other documents, there no Chinese characters names for Lee Sing (only her X's signature on notarization for power of attorney), Yee Loy and the two minor children, Me Lan and Mon Wah.

[Henry]

Hi Dragon008,

What is the source for Hang Hou 坑口 as the village for Tie Sing's mother & can you share that information ?

This village located in Dik Hoi/Dihai and is a Yee village - probably the ancestral village for Tie Sing.

Then we need the Chinese characters for the names of Tie Sing or his brother Loy Yee. I have some contacts in the Kaiping area that can go to the village to confirm that this is Tie Sing's village & whether they have a village genealogy book that would have his family lineage. But, there is a fee for this field research.

Henry

Henry

[gckimm]

Hi dragon008 and other interested parties:

I have gone through the Yee genealogy 余氏族譜 on the Family Search website and I am sorry to say that I came up empty. I searched for all character combinations that could be pronounced like "Tie Sing"--even in Toishanese--and could not find anyone who looked like he could be the person for whom you are searching. He could still be there under a different name, currently unknown.

For those who might be interested in a Yee genealogy from the Sze Yup/Siyi area, this one, dated 1912, could be helpful. It focuses primarily on this area. In the main part of the genealogy--the part with the family tree diagrams--most pages are marked by the specific county and villages in which the people on those pages lived. However, there is a large general section marked only by the heading "lived in villages in Hoiping, Yanping, Sunning, and Sunwui," so if you don't find your village listed, you will need to go through this whole section. The clan generation poem appears at the beginning of the genealogy. Note that this genealogy is classified under "Guangdong 不詳" ("Guangdong - location not recorded").

If you come across any other clues, please let us know. Good luck!

Greg