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Post by philiptancl on Apr 1, 2015 3:09:39 GMT -5
Hi Amy,
If you can scan your zupu and forward it to me, I shall try to construct your pedigree chart for you (similar as what I had done for others in this Forum). You would have to point out where the name(s) of your family members are located in the zupu; that would save me a lot of time in locating them. I suppose you know the names of your family members in Chinese characters. Philip
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Post by amy on Apr 1, 2015 13:44:23 GMT -5
Thank you Philip. That is so kind. I do know my grandfather's, father's and uncles' full names in Chinese and can read a fair number of Chinese characters. If I understand it correctly, according to our generational poem, grandfather is in the 24th generation (孔) and my father and uncles are 25th generation (孟). I'm having a difficult time poring over this 750 page book. Is there an easier way to find them in here other than going page by page and hunting for the characters?
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Post by Doug 周 on Apr 1, 2015 13:56:24 GMT -5
Amy, These seem be hard-bounded Taishan zupus. Because of the number of immigrants to the western countries from Taishan, regional family historians compiled many of the charts click of many different village zupus for easy purchase by overseas Chinese historians. This was very proactive. The problem is TMI. Even if you know the name of your elder, did they use their Zi (字) Hao (號) or Hui (諱) name when the chart was compiled. Even with a Chinese literacy, having the correct name initially is vital. The easiest way is to have your cousin indicate on which page contain your elders lineage. This requires an electronic dialog with your Chinese relatives as you try to winnow down what page and which characters are your lineage. Consider weibo or weichat rather than email (heavens forbid snail mail) for your dialog. You can then attached marked up images and narrow down what pages are of most interest. These messaging services are extremely popular in China (and world wide) If that does not work, then with your the elder’s generation number and ancestral village, you should narrow down the search area significantly. This number provides a cross reference in the zupu, and indeed their ranking amongst clan members. The 24th and 25th generation is your index. IMHO
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Post by philiptancl on Apr 1, 2015 21:40:58 GMT -5
Amy,
Now that you know the names in Chinese characters for your grandfather's, father's and uncles' and the generations they in are, it would make searching for them much easier. Now that you have your zupu, you know which haystack of needles to look for. With you knowing the generation levels, one would know at which levels of the haystack to look for. If you also know which branch of that your family is descended from, then we can search at which section of those levels. This would narrow down the search further. If your cousin could point out the page, then one could narrow down the search even further right to the particular corner in that section. Whether your zupu referenced the names in Zi (字) or Hao (號) or Hui (諱) first, it is whether your particular needles are displayed in which color within the haystack of needles.
Each needle on each level is connected to another needle on the level preceding it. You have 26 levels. One would have a daunting task to follow the connection from one level to the next from your zupu. What I normally do is try to assist others in putting into one chart your own connection from one level to the next; i.e. from your progenitor in Guangdong down to you. As you surname is Chen/Chan/Chin (陳), the three preceding charts from Huang Di down to your progenitor in Guangdong have already been done.
Philip
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Post by philiptancl on Apr 4, 2015 4:31:08 GMT -5
Further to the posting on Mar 31, 2015 regarding Chen clan of Yimen (義門陳氏), the various places after the division is shown in the chart below:
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Post by amy on Apr 7, 2015 13:08:01 GMT -5
THANK YOU Doug and Philip for your sound advice, good tips and warm encouragement. Armed with that, I girded my loins and went page by page through that 748 page genealogy book. AND....by page 215 I located my grandfather and father. I've now traced my line back to the 12th generation!!!! Yippee!!! I'm in the process of annotating, updating and piecing it together. I'm hoping that within a short time I will have the pages to give Philip to construct a pedigree chart! Wow! I feel like I just found King Tut's tomb!
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Post by philiptancl on Apr 8, 2015 22:25:09 GMT -5
Hi Amy,
Now having found the King Tut's tomb, I can see you are embarking on the archeological dig on your own as well. That is great. You will find much satisfaction in doing so. Depending upon to what depth you intent to pursue, you will not only unearth the history and geography of your ancestry but also get to some understanding of the history of the country your ancestors originated from. While you are at it, I would suggest that you try to extract the following information (and digitized them) which the individual profile for each of your ancestors may provide: The Hui (諱), Zi (字) and Hao (號) names, where available;
1. The date of birth and death, 2. The name(s) (or clan name) of wife or wives, 3. The date of birth and death of wife or wives, 4. The names of brothers,
The pedigree chart is just to enable you in displaying your ancestral discoveries more effectively.
From what I had done so far for Chen/Chan/Chin (陳) from Taishan, I would guess you too are descended from Chen Hui/Chen Fengtai (陳輝/陳鳳臺) either from his first son Chen Mo (陳謨) or second son Chen Xuan (陳宣) or the third son Chen Ying (陳英). If your generation numbering quoted by you starts from any of Chen Hui’s sons, then you would be my 50th cousin thrice removed.
Philip
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beng
Member
Posts: 3
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Post by beng on Apr 25, 2015 21:17:30 GMT -5
Hi Philip Appreciate very much your detailed reply. Sorry i did not get back to this post for quite some time. In the past I used to send parcels to this address: 海南省,文昌市,头园村 (in crude English phonetic). My grandfather's full name was 陈有任, my father's was 陈文玉 and mine is 陈明秀 . Perhaps my grandfather made a mistake in the generation naming sequence.
Thank you
Beng Teu
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Post by philiptancl on Apr 27, 2015 4:01:56 GMT -5
Hi Beng Teu,
Since you took so long to response, I no longer kept those materials I had searched for you before.
You are from Singapore, you already know your ancestral village to be in 海南省, 文昌市, 头园村, that village could be found in Google map, and you had sent parcels there before. I would therefore suggest that you should make a trip there not already to find your root but also to get your genealogical records. It would contain the correct sequence of your ancestral generation names as well. The airfare from Singapore to Hainan should be very cheap.
Philip
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beng
Member
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Post by beng on Apr 27, 2015 5:07:59 GMT -5
Hi Philip, Thanks again for your help and also sorry again for my earlier late reply. Yes, I guess I'd make a trip to my ancestral home.
Beng Teu
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josh
Member
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Post by josh on Sept 21, 2015 12:18:38 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
I will start by admitting I am very limited in the amount of information I have to work with. I am trying to determine if there is a generational poem for my maternal grandfather's family (so mother and uncle). I include characters in simplified and traditional script where possible.
The family name is 陳 / 陈. We have spelled and pronounced it "Chin". Nowadays the name is written as "Chin Kit" but I believe this was to distinguish the different "Chin" families that came over to Trinidad. For example I know the "Chin Yuen Kee" family to be my cousins (though I'm not sure how far removed).
I grew up knowing my great grandfather as John thingy Pow Chin Kit. Now I think "thingy Pow" was a poor transliteration and pronunciation of his Chinese name. His tombstone reads his name as "陳國毛/ 陈国毛".
My grandfather's Chinese name was Wa Sing. Him and his brothers all shared the Wa character in their names, so I would assume this was their generational name. I believe the character's for my grandfather's name are 華星 / 华星 but I may be mistaken here and my grandfather has since passed.
The only generational poem I can find for 陳/陈 with 國/国 and 華/华 has them in reverse order with 華/华 coming before 國/国 . The story as I know it was that my great grandfather had left a wife and family back in China, but was unable to return to them after coming to Trinidad, so he remarried and had my grandfather and his siblings. Maybe that could have led to the order being reversed? Or my grandfather and his sibling's generational name may have just been chosen and not from a specific generational poem?
Any help or insights would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
- Josh
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josh
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by josh on Sept 21, 2015 12:23:15 GMT -5
It seems the filters on the site had an issue with how my great grandfather's name was transliterated. "John thing Pow Chin Kit" should be "John Cok Pow Chin Kit"
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josh
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by josh on Sept 21, 2015 12:29:17 GMT -5
One more note, my great grandfather came over to Trinidad from Guangdong province.
Thanks again.
-Josh
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Post by amy on Sept 21, 2015 13:15:01 GMT -5
Do you know your family's village name? If not, it might be inscribed on your ancestors' headstones.
My family is from 台山, 六村鄉 ,大灣 (aka 缸瓦墩) Taishan, Liu Cun, Da Wan. Our generational poem includes the 华国, but as you describe, it is in reverse of the order from your family's. 祖德赐光裕, 明廷擢茂良; 学宜宗孔孟, 华国以文章 星朗聚群贤, 堂高恒自耀; 凤鸣昌奕嗣, 源远乃迩长
I have 陳 cousins in NY who immigrated here by way of Trinidad. Often immigrants to a particular locale originate from the same region in China. They may have a clue.
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josh
Member
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Post by josh on Sept 24, 2015 18:50:47 GMT -5
Hey Amy. Thank you so much for the response. I do not know my family's village name. And it isn't on my great grandfather's headstone. (It may have been at some point, but the headstone has become significantly weathered down over the years). I have 陳 cousins in NY as well, (of the Chin Yuen Kee line I mentioned to be specific, but I'm still waiting to hear back from them if they have any insights. But if your cousins have any ideas please don't hesitate to post.
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