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Post by Henry on Apr 27, 2009 11:32:22 GMT -5
Honchmatt, Welcome to our Forum, Locating an ancestral village is not quite as simple as most people believe, Taishan county has about 5,000 villages and hamlets - many villages with the same name. If you are looking to try to re-claim ownership of your ancestral home, you will probably have to contact the Kaiping (Pinyin)/Hoiping (Cantonese) Overseas Chinese Affairs Office. When the Communists took over, whoever was living in the house may have claimed ownership - a possible relative. I would not advise proceeding down this path until you have visited the house, spoke to the relatives and village chief in your ancestral village. If your dad has these documents - please confirm that the following information I have posted is in fact for your ancestral village. Is Gee/Chu ( 朱 ) your surname? If so, the Village DB: www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/search.cgi searching under this surname, yields, under Hoiping entry 180 " Che Uk" ( 朱屋村 ) village and also entry 181 is for Che UK Sun ( 朱屋新村 ) village - which is an extension of the original village. Your ancestral village is probably the former. Please show your dad or any of your relatives these village names and the map to see if they can confirm. According to the Village DB, the nearest market town is Sar Chau ( 沙洲 ) in the rural district of Yeung Lo Heung ( 羊路鄉 ). If you intend on bring your dad to the ancestral village, I suggest you have my nephew do the preparatory research and actually travel to the village to confirm that it is your ancestral village before coming to the Kaiping area. Trying to check all this out while you are there can turn out to be quite frustrating and sometimes unproductive exercise. You can contact me on Tomclan@Gmail.com Henry mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Kaiping Area.jpg[/img]
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Post by honchmatt on Apr 27, 2009 19:41:36 GMT -5
Hello Henry,
Thank you so much for the information. I asked a friend to look at the title deed again, and according to him the village name is פòJ´å. I hope he got it right. My surname is Lee Àî. There are many more names on the title deed on location and person to detail the transaction, my friend is still combing through it.
Our intention to visit my Ggfather village is a journey of discovery for us and my own gift to my dad. On this trip, I will be bringing my own children (16 and 13). I hope that they will have a better appreciation of their roots and learn the significant of it all when they are older.
The idea of claiming back the house and land is furthest from our mind, though I must admit that the happy thought of having a holiday home in an idyllic village away from the hustle and bustle of city life did cross my mind ;D.
When I was young, my granfather who visited the village when he was a teenager told us many stories about it. Being young, I did not really bother to listen, how I wish otherwise. I do remember him telling us that the area was full of bandits. On one occasion, when bandits raided their home / village he had to fled the house via a hidden escape route build into the house leading out to either another house or field. He also said that the house was so big, it was later converted to a school.
My apologies for rambling on, as you can tell, I am excited about this trip.
Henry, I have read many good recommedation about your nephew in this forum. Once I have translated the title deeds and compiled as much information from it as possible, I will contact you to see how I can best engage his service.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Apr 27, 2009 23:32:24 GMT -5
According to c-c-c.org/villagedb 駐騄里 Zhu Lu Li is indeed Lee family village. It is in 沖澄鄉 Chung Ching Heung, (see c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Heung&id=339 village #2) which is either part of or just outside of 開平 Kaiping City. There is a town labeled as 沖澄 in Henry's map above, just above the tag "Kaiping/Hoiping" that Henry put on the map.
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Post by honchmatt on Apr 28, 2009 2:03:58 GMT -5
Hello laohuaqiao, I could not find the village earlier, because I was told from young it was in Changsha, I take this to mean "Cheung Sar heung". Never thought of looking at "Chung Ching heung" like you have pointed out. Thank you for pointing out this possibility. Based on your suggestion, referencing to the location on Henry's map, the area just above "Kaiping (Hoiping)" I went over to Google Earth for a better view. I saw two cluster of houses divided through the middle by a 4/6 lane highway. If your are right, I sure hope our Ggfather's house is not part of the new spanking highway
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Post by tyuti1668 on Apr 28, 2009 5:40:58 GMT -5
Current address in China post db¹ã¶«Ê¡½ÃÅÊпªÆ½ÊÐ ³¤É³Çø³å³Î¹ÜÇøפ¼´å 529300
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Post by Henry on Apr 28, 2009 9:10:10 GMT -5
Hi Honchmatt, FYI, "tyuti1668" and "laohuaqiao" are among the excellent Forum experts that help to locate ancestral villages. "Changsha" is the place directly to the right of Chung Ching on the map above. In order to find Zhu Lu Li in the Village DB, you had to convert the simplified character for "Zhu" into its simplified form to make a match when searching in Chinese for the village name. You can also locate the village by looking at under the Lee surname. When I tried to enter the traditional characters for Zhu Lu Li - this server converts the Zhu character into its simplified form. Please look at the map below - I believe I have identified the location of your ancestral village Zhu Lu Li. I have included the traditional and simplified Chinese characters for the hamlet name. The China Post DB calls your ancestral village a "village" whereas, the name refers to a hamlet - the name on the map is for a hamlet , however the simplified romanization for the second character Lu is different from the one given by the China Post DB - it looks like there are variations in the simplified character. Please note that both Zhu Lu Li is located in a shaded area , which may be the Chung Ching heung (rural district). Henry mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Kaiping urban.jpg[/img]
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Post by honchmatt on Apr 28, 2009 9:12:09 GMT -5
hello tyuti1668 thank you for the info, enclosed is image of the location laohuaqiao referred to in earlier email. Have a bit more info on my Ggfather's house ;D 本村东边第六行由巷口到第四座屋地,阔四十七桁长二丈七尺。 四至明白[应该是地块的地界]东至暖成屋地、西至培伟屋地、南至瀚伟祖屋、北至庆伟祖屋 Name of Village:Zhulu village Location of land: East of Zhulu Village, the 6th lane, from the beginning of the lane to the 4th house. Width: 47 pillars, length: 27 feet Can anyone tell from the satellite image, where the starting / beginning lane would be
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Post by honchmatt on Apr 28, 2009 9:18:59 GMT -5
hello Henry, whoa! I am overwhelm by the speed I am getting response to my query. Even while I was preparing my response to tyuti1668, you posted even more detail on the location. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, just hope that the house has not been paved over by the highway
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Post by laohuaqiao on Apr 28, 2009 11:42:45 GMT -5
honchmatt,
Congratulations, I think you have found your ancestral village. Looking at the aerial photo, the village is still very much intact. It's easy to access, and how convenient, 2 hotels and a restaurant across the highway.
The highway is a 4-lane car traffic, with additional bicycle lanes on each side, separated from car lanes by a row of bushes/trees. Even though the village is right by the highway, not far away from the bustling urban life you were hoping for, the planners did plant rows of trees to block off some noise and air pollution.
The front of the village faces the pond, to the south. The wide, clear space between the pond and the houses is where people dry everything from washed clothing, to harvested grains, to vegetables, etc. That's why you don't see any trees in that space.
The entrance to the village is from the east, or from the road. I can't tell exactly where the lanes start, since the houses aren't laid out as regularly near the entrance as the houses in the rest of the village, where the lanes could be easily discerned.
Good luck on your trip; I'm sure you, your father and your children will enjoy it.
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Post by tyuti1668 on Apr 28, 2009 14:37:34 GMT -5
... Have a bit more info on my Ggfather's house ;D 本村东边第六行由巷口到第四座屋地,阔四十七桁长二丈七尺。 四至明白[应该是地块的地界]东至暖成屋地、西至培伟屋地、南至瀚伟祖屋、北至庆伟祖屋 ... OLD chinese measurement unitChing dynasty to ROC (量地尺) 1丈 = 345 cm, 1尺 = 34.5 cm, 1寸 = 3.45 cm 1桁 = width of 1 roof tile
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Post by Ah Gin on Apr 30, 2009 22:00:49 GMT -5
Honchmatt,
Using Henry's second map as reference, then your ancestral village is in a very accessible part of Kaiping, as it is very near the Yici Bus station. I stayed at the Garden Hotel last November, at our Clan Family Conference, just a stone's throw from your ancestral home. The highway lane is very busy, so take care.
Enjoy your homeward bound journey.
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by honchmatt on May 2, 2009 9:11:35 GMT -5
Thank you all for helping me to locate my ancestral village.
I have already started working with Henry to ask his nephew to assist us in getting prior information before we arrive.
Not having communicated with anyone from the village, not knowing who is still there of close blood ties, not even knowing if the house have been paved over by the highway, etc.. do put some degree of uncertainty in our heart.
At the same time the excitement of venturing into our past, discovery and finding our roots is really something. Needless to say, our family discussion over the past weeks have all to do with finding our ancestral village after all these years.
After our trip, I intend to document everything, photos, video interview, gps, etc. to share, hopefully, I will in hand able to help some else search for his roots.
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Post by honchmatt on Jun 15, 2009 21:03:03 GMT -5
All,
I posted on this site on 27th April 09 asking for help to locate my ancestral village. Henry and some many other forummers chipped in to assist.
After more than a month of confirming the location and planning, we finally set off on 7th June 09 for the visit. We are now back home and it has been an amazing journey.
As mentioned by Henry to me, every Chinese who has the means, should try discovering his roots and if he has the good fortune of actually setting foot in his ancestral home, the experience is humbling and it is something to cherish for life. It really takes an actual trip to really appreciate what this really means, and the experience is both humbling and uplifting.
I had the good fortune of making this trip with my parents and my children in tow, 3 generations setting off to discover a part of our life we thought have been lost forever. Finding my great grandfather's house still standing, meeting up with distant relatives, relatives that had actually stayed in my great grandfather's house before, listening to all the stories and the warm reception we had from folks we never knew, have been just amazing.
All this would not have been possible without the help of all the forummers that chipped in and without the assistance of Henry's nephew, Tan Shi Cheng in Taishan that did an amazing amount of ground work beforehand.
For everyone looking towards making such a trip, my advise is to get as much done as possible before even booking the airtickets. Henry's nephew looked for our great grandfather's house, our blood relatives, the zupu, arranged the visits, the meetings, the luncheon/dinners and a bus driver that knows Kaiping / Taishan like the back of his hand. The bus driver also knows all the best eating places in town! By all means, engage a person to do all these beforehand, I would highly recommend Tan Shi Cheng for these tasks.
If all these were not planned for beforehand, we would have been lost, spent beyond our budget, achieved little and came home dissapointed.
It trully has been an amazing journey and a journey well worth the effort.
Again, thank you all for your help.
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Post by douglaslam on Jun 16, 2009 3:26:23 GMT -5
Hello honchmatt,
It is pleasing to read of your successful search for your ancestral roots and subsequent trip to China. There is no better help available than our panel of experts, who do it so cheerfully for free.
As for me, I have no expertise to offer. That said, I like to read of successful searches such as yours. It brightens a cold, damp winter's day Downunder. I am an armchair traveller, please let us hear more of your travels in China in greater details. Some digital photos of your ancestral village will be very special. I am sure there are other like-minded members who would like to know, also.
Regards,
Douglas
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Post by laohuaqiao on Jun 16, 2009 10:20:52 GMT -5
Honchmatt,
Congratulations on your successful trip.
I was in Taishan City last week, spoke to Tan Shi Cheng over the phone and he said he just met up with some people in Zhuhai and was on the way to Kaiping. He was probably with you and your family then.
Anyway, I'm back in the states myself and when I have recuperated from jet lag I'll report on some of my experiences.
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