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Post by philiptancl on Oct 29, 2015 22:26:09 GMT -5
Hi Marlee,
So you are not looking for your paternal great grandfather ancestry. Just to give you a little caution. Even if you could eventually track down the ancestral village of LEE CAM and could find the ancestral hall where the ancestral records are kept, there is a possibility the ancestral hall committee there may be reluctant to give you to access the records as you are not the direct male descendant of the surname clan.
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Post by douglaslam on Oct 30, 2015 2:42:29 GMT -5
Hi Marlee, I set off with my two village brothers to two or perhaps three Lee villages, each has large number of villagers overseas. We went after our morning yum cha. Many of our member can recall Ming my village brother. He is indispensible in situation like this.
At the first village we stopped by, he went straight to the top man, the Party branch secretary he knew. Ming also called an old friend, who dropped eveything and came to see us by taxi.
There was also a returnee from Mexico, an old man who ventured to Mexico in 1957. Alas, nothing concrete came of it. The Party secretary showed me the clan genealogy book. I tried to look for anyone close to name Lee Cam of the era, found one, but nothing was said he went to Mexico. People were most helpful. The Party secretary promised he would follow through because there was a person who may have imformation for us but was away.
After lundh we went to the second village. It was disappointing because we had no way to make ourselves understood. Mexico did not ring any bells.
We did not go to a third village because Ming knows no one there and it is a little further away. The first two villages were a reliable guide to our hard task ahead.
Don't give up just yet Marlee. Our members are resourceful. Something would turn up one day. Douglas
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Post by marlee on Oct 30, 2015 4:11:42 GMT -5
Hi Douglas!!! Thank you so much for taking all this time to try to find out more about it. I'm sure eventually something will come out! I'm hopeful of that. I'm still waiting to hear from my family in Mexico. Hopefully I will get more information this weekend! it is exciting to know you talked to people in those villages. Do you think that the person with the close name to Lee Cam has records to leave China? perhaps he went somewhere else first and then Mexico? Thank yoou so much again for everything Hi Marlee, I set off with my two village brothers to two or perhaps three Lee villages, each has large number of villagers overseas. We went after our morning yum cha. Many of our member can recall Ming my village brother. He is indispensible in situation like this. At the first village we stopped by, he went straight to the top man, the Party branch secretary he knew. Ming also called an old friend, who dropped eveything and came to see us by taxi. There was also a returnee from Mexico, an old man who ventured to Mexico in 1957. Alas, nothing concrete came of it. The Party secretary showed me the clan genealogy book. I tried to look for anyone close to name Lee Cam of the era, found one, but nothing was said he went to Mexico. People were most helpful. The Party secretary promised he would follow through because there was a person who may have imformation for us but was away. After lundh we went to the second village. It was disappointing because we had no way to make ourselves understood. Mexico did not ring any bells. We did not go to a third village because Ming knows no one there and it is a little further away. The first two villages were a reliable guide to our hard task ahead. Don't give up just yet Marlee. Our members are resourceful. Something would turn up one day. Douglas
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Post by marlee on Oct 30, 2015 4:14:09 GMT -5
Hi Philip Thanks for the cantion, I still think that the best way to find out is trying so I will give it a shoot. Even if they don't give me any information I would love to find the exact village to come and visit. unless visit are not allowed to tourist. For me is very important to try to find out where he comes from. I would love to go to see that place and understand a little bit more about it. I'm sure that will help me to understand a bit more about myself. Hi Marlee, So you are not looking for your paternal great grandfather ancestry. Just to give you a little caution. Even if you could eventually track down the ancestral village of LEE CAM and could find the ancestral hall where the ancestral records are kept, there is a possibility the ancestral hall committee there may be reluctant to give you to access the records as you are not the direct male descendant of the surname clan.
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Post by amy on Oct 30, 2015 18:39:51 GMT -5
Marlee, I found this 1927 ship manifest in Ancestry.com listing an Ignacio Ley travelling from Mexico to Hong Kong and in transit in San Francisco. It's a longshot, but thought I'd post it for you in case it's who you're looking for. There are also listings from Mexico's census and death records for other men named Ignacio Ley. You said your great grandfather may have been born in 1880's. There is one Ignacio Ley whose birth year is 1885. Maybe you want to look through those and see if there are any clues. Amy
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Post by marlee on Oct 31, 2015 4:01:26 GMT -5
Amy that's amazing!!! I'm sure it is him!! I can't believe it! this is so exciting!!! Is there any chance you could share with me the information about the listings from Mexico's census and death records? was it in Mexico City ? I'm pretty sure he must be that one and perhaps we miss calculate his age before! Marlee, I found this 1927 ship manifest in Ancestry.com listing an Ignacio Ley travelling from Mexico to Hong Kong and in transit in San Francisco. It's a longshot, but thought I'd post it for you in case it's who you're looking for. There are also listings from Mexico's census and death records for other men named Ignacio Ley. You said your great grandfather may have been born in 1880's. There is one Ignacio Ley whose birth year is 1885. Maybe you want to look through those and see if there are any clues. Amy
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Post by Henry on Oct 31, 2015 9:02:14 GMT -5
Hi Marlee,
Does the grave of your great grandfather have any Chinese characters inscribed on it - usually, an overseas Chinese person has his Chinese name & the name of his ancestral village. If somebody could take a digital photo & post it on the Forum, there are members that are Chinese literate.
Since Amy found your great grandfather on that passenger list - he must have been traveling with probably a Mexican passport - so there has to be some sort of Mexican government documents related to his travel to & from Mexico to Hong Kong.
Henry
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Post by amy on Oct 31, 2015 11:04:34 GMT -5
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Post by Henry on Oct 31, 2015 18:19:42 GMT -5
Amy,
Great research - I did not realize you can read Spanish. I'll ask my wife, a Colombian lady, to translate some of the info.
Henry
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Post by marlee on Oct 31, 2015 20:04:14 GMT -5
Hi Henry No one really knows where the grave is. They just know he died of a Heart Attack in Mexico City. He came to my City Xalapa to take his kids and they were staying under the wing of another chinese family under the last name Chong. He took a trip to Mexico and then he had a heart attack. so far I know no one has ever been to that grave or they don't know where exactly his body is. The List passenger would make sense the only thing is that there is a difference of 3 years of age on that passanger. However at that time in Mexico registers were not really good and people used to change their ages for legal stuff or they used to have brith certificates with different ages or with a slight change in their last names. The birth Certificate of Heriberta makes me wonder even more information as in that certificate they mention Ignacio Ley and Leticia Apodaca which both are my great grand parents. The writing is pretty old so I have sent the documents to my uncle to see if he understand the typography better than I do. It is amazing to have for leads for the roots!! Hi Marlee, Does the grave of your great grandfather have any Chinese characters inscribed on it - usually, an overseas Chinese person has his Chinese name & the name of his ancestral village. If somebody could take a digital photo & post it on the Forum, there are members that are Chinese literate. Since Amy found your great grandfather on that passenger list - he must have been traveling with probably a Mexican passport - so there has to be some sort of Mexican government documents related to his travel to & from Mexico to Hong Kong. Henry
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Post by marlee on Oct 31, 2015 20:08:49 GMT -5
Hi Amy!!!
This is amazing information!!!! it is very interesting the information about Heriberta, this may lead to even more information. it must be I don't think it is a coincidence. I have asked one of my uncles about that name and nothing pop but I'm thinking it must have been a baby who died when very young. I will go through all this documents very carefully!!
I'm so thankful for this information.
As I mentioned to Douglas at that time in Mexico people used to changed their age is official documents for legal reasons so I wouldn't be supprise if his name shows in different parts with a slightly difference on the age. I will keep reading those documents and I have a picture coming soon !!
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Post by philiptancl on Nov 1, 2015 3:08:08 GMT -5
Hi Marlee, You said LEY CAM’s children were staying under the wing of another Chinese family under the last name Chong. The surname Chong pronounced in Cantonese is likely to be Zhāng (張/张). It is likely that the ancestry of Chong is from the same ancestral place as that of your great grandfather. I find that all of those (irrespective of their surnames) who initially came to the place where my grandfather first settled in Malaysia were from the same ancestral township in Yongchun County, Fujian Province, China. Your search is similar to that of Yuminnan, a member of this Forum and a Dutch from Netherlands, for his wife Chinese ancestry of Zeng (曾) clan as posted in this Forum at: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1845/zeng-tjan-chang-tsang-tseng#ixzz3qDqAXsIFHis search for his wife ancestry now formed part of Episode 1 of CCTV9 series entitled “我从汉朝来”, “I’m from the Han Dynasty”.
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 1, 2015 7:37:37 GMT -5
Hi Marlee, it is heartening to see the progress you're making. I am sure one day, before too long, you'll get a positive identification of a name and village. I wasn't able to read the posts made or log on in the last two days because I was away. I did not get a chance to use a PC.
The person's name who came close to Lee Cam, probably did not go abroad because those who did were recorded in the genealogy book. I'll give a more interesting photo report when I return home in a few days. Also, I can only input Chinese on my PC at home. I am not familiar with the Chinese software here.
The village I did not call on hosts two main family names , that of Lee and Chong or Cheung 張 as it is spelt in Hong Kong. It matches our friend Philip's deduction that the family friend might have come from the same ancestral place. I don't have the time to call because I am leaving tomorrow for Guangzhou / Canton.
I hope with the help of our panel of experts, you are going to put the pieces of the jigsaw together and get the big picture.
All the best. Douglas
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Post by amy on Nov 1, 2015 18:19:12 GMT -5
Marlee, Here is one more Ignacio from 1941 that also has a name written in Chinese and mentions a son named Lucio Ley. Amy
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Post by philiptancl on Nov 1, 2015 20:00:07 GMT -5
Hi Marlee,
Re: Amy posting about an hour ago.
As far as I could interpret the writing in Chinese characters (李悦志), he should be for LEY YEC CHEE or Lǐ Yuè Zhì (in Pinyin). 志 is part of my name and in my Minnan dialect it is Romanized as “Chee”
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