Need help about Zhu family ( Žé)

[kaoyien]

Hi!

I read the posts and i think they were really interesting! I always thought that it was unusual that all Chinese familys that i meet work in laundry stores. Now i know that it is a personal skill of our cultural background. Very cool! My grandpa took good care of the store while he was alive. But it was unfortunately closed, because my grandma didn´t know how to run this kind of establishment (she was a cook). The name of the laundry store was "Chan Chi". My father always tells me that my grandpa use to take care of the clothes and the management and my dad use to make the deliveries. The building still exists until today, (it is in downtown, in front of a square ) and every time we pass by he tells me that it was a very nice time in his life!

Another thing that i wanted to ask was how the surname is established in China? In Brazil, when a women gets married, she can choose if she wants her husband surname, or just put his surname next to hers. In China is different nowadays? And in the past, how was it?

Finally, i wanted to know: I am taking Mandarin lessons (although my grandpa use to speak Cantonese) and i wanted to know if with that knowledge i can communicate with people from all across China or not.

Thanks! 谢谢

See ya 附属的

[helen]

Mandarin is the official language of China now - so you will be able to communicate okay. Are you also learning to write Chinese? Good on you for taking lessons.

[laohuaqiao]

kaoyien,
25 years ago, if you had gone into Taishan, you'd have had a hard time finding someone who understood Cantonese, let alone Mandarin. Today, most of the people in their 30s or younger in Taishan can understand and speak Cantonese and Mandarin, besides Taishanese. Since most of the young tend to work and live in the larger towns and cities, you'll be OK there with Mandarin; but in the villages where the older people remain you'll need a Taishanese interpreter. I think this is true throughout China, you won't have any problem speaking Mandarin alone in the urban areas, once you get into the countryside you'll need someone who speaks the local dialect.

Helen asked a very good question on learning to write; since the written Chinese is the same everywhere, you can always try to communicate by writing if you have trouble understanding each other verbally .

As to the question on married woman, today a married woman in China keeps her own name, unchanged. In the old days, she would have added her husband's surname to hers.

[Henry]

Kaoyien,

I believe that Chinese have a natural procilivity to cooking, hence, restaurants, but, none when it comes to laundries. Let me explain:

Immigrants via a "chain migration" of family, relatives and friends providing information, money, jobs, and support when new immigrants arrive - tend to migrate to the same destinations overseas, live near each other, and probably work in the same line of work, where their relatives and friends can arrange for a job for the newcomer.

In the US, when Chinese first came after the gold strike in California in 1849. After the discrimination in the goldfields, the Chinese turned to washing and cooking because there were not many women around to do this work because California was a frontier.

After ther completion of the Transcontinental railroad, for which there were over 20,000 Chinese workers on the Central Pacific portion, linking the East and West coasts of the US, Chinese were brought from the West Coast to the East coast in 1870 as strikebreakers.

The Passaic Steam Laundry, in Passiac, New Jersey, just across the Hudson River from New York City had a strike in 1870 and they brought in Chinese workers. By 1878, there were 56 Chinese laundries in New York City. The formation of Chinatown, New York City was a direct response in providing a place where Chinese laundry workers could get Chinese goods and services. Chinatown, was not a residential area for the Chinese, because they lived where they worked - in the laundries or nearby.

As news of the success of overseas Chinese in laundries and restaurants made its way back to the villages and hamlets of the SiYi region, young Chinese leaving China - could easily find jobs in restaurant and laundries.

Laundries were a more prominent industry for the Chinese, because unlike a restaurant which required a lot of money to start, laundries could be started for probably around a $100 USD or less in those days. But, since no banks would make loans to new immigrants - the Chinese has their own mechanism to save and borrow money thru the "hui" system.

Later on, many Chinese were able to establish their own "mama/ papa" stores for a business as laundry and grocery stores - some also opened small Chinese restaurants and/or carry-out/take away where the entire family worked. This has been a model for many Chinese to use when arriving in a new overseas country. These immigrant parents work so hard to provide a decent education for their children so they could become professional and not have to work so hard as they did. Welcome to the world of the overseas Chinese "huaqiao".


Henry

[chansomvia]

Hi Henry,

Thank you for very interesting and factual account of the latter day migrants who came from China to man the laundries and restaurants in America. The work was back-breaking, living conditions cramped, it certainly was not a country where there was a "Gold Mountain" to pick.

For those interested there is an excellent document "The Evolution of Chinese Malaysian Entrepreneurship: From British Colonial Rule to Post-New Economic Policy" written by Chin Yee Whah who is a Senior Lecturer at the School of Social Sciences, Universiti Malaysia. email [e-mail]. The ISSN is 1793-0391 and published by the University Press for the Chinese Heritage Center in Singapore. LCN: 2005234451. The article is in the Journal of Chinese Overseas 4.2 (Nov 2008) pages 203 -237.

The article describes how the Chinese started in Malaya in small businesses and industries before the War, how they prospered in spite of the difficulties placed by the British Colonialist, and how they are coping now with the severe restrictions with the Malay policies after independence.

The article is 34 pages long and has 5 pages of references. Heavy reading but good for general comparison with the other Chinese migration pattern.

Joe

[geoff]

I don't think Chinese were prominent in commercial laundries in Sydney.

Douglas, any comments?

[Henry]

Joe,

I happen to do a masters thesis on the formation of New York City Chinatown: 1850 - 1890 in 1975 - so, much of what I said came from my research.

Most sociologists were always talking about the prejudice and discrimination against blacks and ethnic groups in the cities - so they had to huddle together in ethnic concentrations. This sort of social science generation was totally false when applied to the Chinese in New York City.

During the last quarter of the 19th century, the overwhelming majority of Chinese in New York City lived where or near where they worked - in their laundries. So, the spatial pattern was not concentrated but widely dispersed across the New York City area. Thus, Chinatown, was a central place for goods and services to the Chinese. It was never a concentrated residential cluster of Chinese until after WWII, when Chinese were allowed to bring wives/brides from China. The overwhelming demographic profile of the Chinese in the US until then was that - probably over 95% of the Chinese in the US were males. If anything, the resulting spatial pattern was directly opposite. As a historical geographer, we research historical spatial patterns for their applicability in the past and the present and also test hypotheses historically. This was more than just a quaint little ethnic study.

My question is - did the overseas Chinese use the "hui" system in their new destinations as a banking mechanism for saving and borrowing?

Henry

[helen]

I know that a merchant in Auckland did that. I looked at the funeral accounts for an Auckland European run funeral parlour in the Chinese quarters of the Grey Avenue area. In most cases the full funeral bill was sent to the merchant - and I guess the family involved paid back a little at a time.

[douglaslam]

Geoff,
I did read Chinese in Sydney were prominent in furniture making and to a lesser extend laundry. Perhaps I was too young and arrived too late to witness any remaining vestiges of them.

ANZAC Day today, I had an idea what you and your mother might be doing.

Douglas

[chansomvia]

Dear Henry

Hui and other banking system for new immigrants.

This is slightly off-topic but your comment in the paper on "hui" you researched for your Masters is very interesting. The Hui or tontine or the pooling of money from a group of colleagues, friends, etc on a monthly basis and pool given to the one in most need is very common in Malaysia amongst not only the Chinese but also by the Malays and Indians there. This provides instant cash for the elaborate weddings, settling of debts, seed money for a new business, etc. This instant access is usually the only way a person without a collateral can gain cash as banks will not give loans to these people.

There is a slightly more elaborate system operating in UK where our family was caught up with the expulsion of Asians from Uganda and Kenya in the '60s. The Asians could not take out money legally and landed in Britain, most were British subjects then, with little cash. Forty years on these Asians, mainly Indians and Pakistanis but also some Chinese, are either higher middleclass or millionaires, one of the richest person in UK is an Indian. This transformation came about by the loaning of money, premises, and goods to the people of the same caste or same villages by those who came earlier. There was no collateral hence no loans were available from the British banks.

Service stations, corners shops, newspaper vendors at the railways station, chemists, auto repair shops, groceries, eating places, these money making places took off financially as the hard-working Asians worked long, and sometimes illegally long, hours. The business chosen were winners as few locals could endure the hard work and unsocial hours. Supplies of raw material, spare parts, were bulk bought from the main organisers at good prices and supplied to those lower on the chain. Credit was given. Before long the hard work paid off and loans paid up.

The difference in UK was that as soon as the loan was paid off there was a social obligation of those who had been helped to help those who needed a lift to get them on their feet. The better off would then loan money, goods, and premises to their less fortunate people. The wheel turned round again. In addition to getting easy credit facility there would also be someone helping with teaching the tricks of the trade. Family members were roped in to do chores. Hence the great prosperity of the Asians in UK now. The expulsion was a blessing in disguise and the life in UK for the Asians is infinitely better than it would have ever been in Africa.

Joe

[Henry]

Hi Joe,

Thank you for the excellent explantion about how the "hui / tontine" works overseas.

As a youngster, I always went with my parents each Sunday to Chinatown to "gong hui" , where my father would pay into a hui. There were hui(s) with different weekly payments. The hui was set for a certain length of time at a certain weekly rate and it was a way that the Chinese in New York City could save or borrow money.

There was no collateral necessary, but, the hui was usually organized by common surname, town, county associations. It was highly unusual that a person/organization responsible for the money ran off with the money. But, I do believe that when a person "hee hui" (takes out/borrows) the money before the scheduled date of completion - 2 or more members of that or another hui, with enough money, has to guarantee your "loan" in case you default.

In the context of Chinese starting a Chinese hand laundry during the later part of the 19th century in New York City, say, it cost a $100 to start a Chinese hand laundry, a man would join a hui, probably based upon surname and managed by the surname clan association. There would be 20 men, each contributing $5 per week for 20 weeks. At the end of 20 weeks, each member of that hui would save $100 with interest because if somebody needed the money that week - he would take the money and then each week thereafter he would pay back $6 a week and at the end of the period - repay the loan, with interest to the hui.

Koreans also have a similar system and I think they call it a "kay"


Henry

[helen]

I learnt something today - Cantonese sounds like "goong woy" lol. Thanks for giving me a new word today

[kaoyien]

Hi everyone!

Can someone translate this text for me please!?

I was not able to do it.

你好！我应该怎样称呼你呢？你所讲的“祖父”是你爸爸的爸爸吗？-朱新洁是我的爷爷，计起来，你应该是他的伯父吗？我是朱振兴的大女叫朱金冰还有一妹，2弟；我叔有2个仔，都和我弟这样大。你在外的生活好吗？有几个子女，你也发些全家照给我们看一下，你平时有上QQ聊天的吗？你有QQ号码吗？可以的话，我们能在网上见上面多好啊！

See ya

[douglaslam]

Hello Kaoyien,

This is my clumsy attempt at translating the message. Please excuse my inaccurate pinyin romanisation. I welcome corrections to my shortcomings.

Here it is:

Nihao, how are you! How should I address you? The "grandfather" you're talking about, is he your father's father?- Zhu Xinjie is my (paternal) grandfather, would that make you his elder (generational) uncle? I am Zhu Jenxiang's eldest daughter, called Zhu Jinbing. I have a sister and 2 brothers; my uncle has 2 sons, similar age to my brother(s). How is life abroad, how many children have you? Please send us a family snapshot. Do you go on QQ and chat? Do you have a QQ number? It would be wonderful if it's possible for us to meet online!

--------------------------------------

Good luck,

Douglas

[harc3]

That's pretty good douglaslam...
That's about what I got too....but you got a little more than I...
sounds exciting anyway