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Post by FayChee on Aug 2, 2019 9:57:28 GMT -5
I found this contact information online for Seto Library:
司徒氏通俗图书馆seto library Mr. Szeto Kinping, Executive Deputy Director of Kaiping Shi Tu Popular Library Management Committee, Kaiping City.
广东省开平市赤坎司徒氏通俗图书馆,地址:广东省开平市赤坎镇堤东路电话:(0750)2612250
Likan Situ's Popular Library, Kaiping City, Guangdong Province, China Address: Didong Road, Chikan Town, Kaiping City, Guangdong Province Tel: (0750) 2612250
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Post by LJ on Aug 4, 2019 23:48:21 GMT -5
Hi LJeung, I only have the old zupus in the book I made of Chun he descendants (as far as I know).....I believe Kaiping Villages are Chun Xiu descendants..... On a different subject, while looking through some old communications, I have 6 pages of Taishan Ng Zupu.......I think you mentioned a Ng relative. I don't know if you need this, so let me know. My nephew's wife is a Ng. This is a Family tree of the first 6 generations in Kaiping Muncun...direct ancestors of Muncun Ng's. Fay Chee Thanks, FayChee. The second image looks like the front cover for the Si Tu Chun He Zupu (司徒春和族谱) in your Szeto Zupu Jiapu folder on Google Drive. In the title, I see the characters 春和 for Chun He. I'm not sure that Kaiping villagers are Chun Xiu descendants. Rereading one of my previous posts, Hi Fay Chee, Looking at the list of generation poems again, I see that your father Kai Yip and my great-grandfather Chun Yiu were of the same generation of the Guangdong Setos, the 25th generation, and by comparing pages 18, 209, and 230 of "Seto Zupu Generation Poems and all Nov 11reformated", I figured out that our last common Szeto ancestor was Tze Yee/Ziyi (子義/子义) of the fourth generation, that you are from his eldest son Tung Fu/Tongfu (通輔/通辅), and that I am descended from his second son Leong Fu/Liangfu (良輔/良辅). This means that you and I are 20th cousins twice removed! Greetings, cousin! LJeung I remember though that our last common Situ ancestor was Tze Yee/Ziyi (子義/子义) of the fourth generation of the Sun Yung/Xuanweng (宣翁) lineage, that you're descended from his eldest son Tung Fu/Tongfu (通輔/通辅), and that I'm descended from his second son Leong Fu/Liangfu (良輔/良辅). And in the family tree on page 19 of the zupu, I see that Chun He (Chun Wo/春和), Chun Xiu (Chun Sau/春秀), and Chun Xu, whose name could also be pronounced Chun Xiu (Chun Hui/Yu / 春煦) were great-great-great-grandsons of Tongfu; and I see in one of your earliest posts, siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/11702, that the chief historian at the Situ Library in Chikan indicated that Chaoyang Village residents, such as your grandfather and father, are descended from Chun He. I myself am descended from the parallel lineage Liangfu (良輔)-Mang Shu/Mengshu (孟叔)-Sun Tong/Xintang (新唐). By the way, while looking through the Situ zupus in the MyChinaRoots Zupu Database, I found another version of the Chun He zupu there, Si Tu Chun He Zupu 司徒春和族谱. Since it pertains to the Chun He lineage, I of course didn't find mine there. I also found what's apparently the zupu shown in your first image, Si Tu Clan Zupu (Di Yi Ce) 司徒氏族谱(第一册). I couldn't find my lineage there, either. I also looked at the other zupus there: Dao Guang Si Tu Clan Zupu 道光司徒氏族谱Si Tu Clan Cun Luo Shi Ce 司徒氏村落史册Kaiping Xuan Xi Li Situ Clan Jiapu 开平旋溪里司徒氏家谱The first of these is unavailable. The second is the 200 Szeto Villages Book. And the third is a zupu, but I couldn't find my lineage there either. Thanks for mentioning you have Taishan and Kaiping Ng zupus. Yes, in old communications, I did mention an Ng relative, in fact, several Ng relatives. One Ng relative was from Sun Woo Village, Sunning (Taishan), and the others were from Shunde. I mentioned them in the following threads: Chinese Genealogies on FamilySearchCurrent Thoughts On-Line Family Tree ProgramsSearching my roots in ShundeYes, I'd like these zupus. Perhaps, you can post them in these threads? Ng Genealogy Book published in Hoiping Oct 2015Ng 伍 genealogy book/zupu/jiapu for Taishan including 八家村/昌平村You mentioned Muncun. Is it a village? Incidentally, from reviewing our lineages, I see that I miscalculated our relationship: You and I are actually 21st cousins twice removed. That explains why GEDmatch didn't show us as each other's match (although the DNA comparison website did show that we still shared matches who are much more closely related ). Hoping you had a great weekend, LJeung
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Post by LJ on Aug 5, 2019 0:17:20 GMT -5
I found this contact information online for Seto Library: 司徒氏通俗图书馆seto library Mr. Szeto Kinping, Executive Deputy Director of Kaiping Shi Tu Popular Library Management Committee, Kaiping City. 广东省开平市赤坎司徒氏通俗图书馆,地址:广东省开平市赤坎镇堤东路电话:(0750)2612250 Likan Situ's Popular Library, Kaiping City, Guangdong Province, China Address: Didong Road, Chikan Town, Kaiping City, Guangdong Province Tel: (0750) 2612250 Thanks again, FayChee. I'll contact the library when I have the chance. LJeung
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Post by FayChee on Aug 18, 2019 12:05:41 GMT -5
Can anyone confirm that if the Village 'Xuan Long Li/Cun' is written differently due to the dialect (Cantonese vs Mandarin vs Toishanese), it will still have the same Chinese characters?
旋龙村 Xuan Long Simplified (in 200 Seto Villages books\ and new Seto Zupu) ?Mandarin/Cantonese
or
旋龍村 Xuan Long Traditional (from Gravestone) ?Toishanese
Thank you,
Fay Chee
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Post by Henry on Aug 18, 2019 14:16:28 GMT -5
Hi FayChee,
While I am not Chinese literate at all,I believe the difference between the Chinese characters 旋龍村 and 旋龙村 is traditional and simplified Chinese characters.
The differences in the Chinese dialects of Cantonese, Mandarin, and Taishanese is in the pronunciations and in the romanizations, e.g., dragon - romanized in Cantonese as "lung" and the (Mandarin) Pinyin as "long".
Henry
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Post by FayChee on Aug 18, 2019 21:37:51 GMT -5
Henry, thank you for explaining this confusing subject. So it seems that 'Xuan Lung' would be Cantonese dialect and Xuan Long the Mandarin Pinyin dialect...is there a Toishanese version?
I am posting a question from Roy regarding the Roots Village Database......would appreciate anyone who is familiar with searching for Villages there....
"Linda, I have been looking at the Roots Village Data Base for villages with Seto residents and have found the Long Kou Lay village in the listing of the Wing Kin Heung. I have not be able to locate the Xuan Long Lay/ Cun village in the Roots Data Base. Do you have an idea of what the Cantonese name of the Xuan Long Lay/Cun village is in the Roots Village Data Base ? And under what Heung is the name listed ?"
Thank you,
Fay Chee
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Post by Henry on Aug 19, 2019 11:38:00 GMT -5
Hi Fay Chee, Several dictionaries for Taishan pronunciation : en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:About_Chinese/Cantonese/TaishaneseI believe you are most fortunate to have the 200 Szeto Villages book, it is a much more definitive source for the Szeto clan villages around the Chikan area. Although most people using the Village Database to search for ancestral villages may believe otherwise, the Village Database is not the most comprehensive source - because they villages listed are only the ones that the American Consulate in Hong Kong had on record from where Chinese emigrating to the US originated from. I do not believe that every village & hamlet in the 4 component counties in the SiYi region had people that went to the US. Also, the primary romanization for Chinese names of villages was Cantonese, the lingua franca of Guangdong province. But, the Village Database is certainly the most useful because it has the very unique feature of identifying the clan surname associated with the village name - which is immensely helpful. There are several major reasons why it is sometimes very difficult to identify and locate ancestral villages in the SiYi region. Henry
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Post by FayChee on Aug 20, 2019 7:54:52 GMT -5
Thanks Henry, I passed on this information to Roy. I looked through the index in the '200 Seto Villages' book and found two "Xuan's" and both were in Chikan Township, but only one matched the gravestone.... 漩溪里 Xuanxili 南楼乡 Nan lou Xiang 旋龙里 Xuanlongli 树溪乡 Shu xi Xiang
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Post by Henry on Aug 20, 2019 10:36:25 GMT -5
Hi FayChee, Online map websites in English & Chinese do not show XuanLongLi because as a "li" = hamlet = small village of probably a dozen houses or less - most maps will not include it, which is why the 200 Szeto Villages book is so invaluable. Here is the map from the 200 Szeto Villages book that shows XuanLongLi with 2 reference villages HuLong & DongHua cross-referenced to a Google map to show its approximate location: Here are some maps to give you a general orientation of the location of XuanLongLi: Henry
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Post by FayChee on Aug 20, 2019 23:09:56 GMT -5
Hi Henry,
Thank you so much for the great maps! I told Roy that he should check-in and take a look. When I get a chance, I will look for Xuanxili in the Seto Zupu Vol 5, just in case someone wrote it wrong on the tombstone. I still need Volumes 2 and 4...........I wonder what areas they cover.....
My Best to you,
Fay Chee
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Post by jlwhedbee on Aug 22, 2019 20:55:03 GMT -5
Is there one generational poem that the Soo Hoo’s from Hoiping use?
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Post by FayChee on Aug 27, 2019 23:07:16 GMT -5
Hi,
I have copied a post from Siyi member 'Henry', which should clarify the Generational Poems:
"Generational poems are usually specific to the family /village genealogy book found in your ancestral village, or found in a nearby ancestral hall, or found in a clan genealogy book/book-set of the nearest larger town or city.
Generational poems can vary between many villages with the same clan name.
Henry"
Hope this helps,
Fay Chee
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Post by evelyn on Aug 29, 2019 20:24:32 GMT -5
Hi Evelyn, I found a Village in Volume 5 of the New Situ Zupu that may be the same as the one you mentioned in your PM. Your picture of the house in the Village on page 3 of the "200 Seto Villages" book is named Lianshengli.....I am hoping that Shentang Lianxingli is the same Village. I searched every page for the names Yuquan 𢤥權 (Generation 23), Wenji 文籍 (Generation 24) and Junzhong 俊仲 (Generation 25), but did not find a match. I found one page with a box and translated it....Below is the page to show you what the box said, but it is not your family tree. I don't know what the word "Qianlong" means (? a Village, a special Chinese year)....but since Lianshengli was established in the year 1928, I was hoping that Qianlong was first earlier Village. I will check the names again, in case I just missed something. Fay Chee
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Post by evelyn on Aug 29, 2019 20:55:14 GMT -5
Hi Evelyn, I found a Village in Volume 5 of the New Situ Zupu that may be the same as the one you mentioned in your PM. Your picture of the house in the Village on page 3 of the "200 Seto Villages" book is named Lianshengli.....I am hoping that Shentang Lianxingli is the same Village. I searched every page for the names Yuquan 𢤥權 (Generation 23), Wenji 文籍 (Generation 24) and Junzhong 俊仲 (Generation 25), but did not find a match. I found one page with a box and translated it....Below is the page to show you what the box said, but it is not your family tree. I don't know what the word "Qianlong" means (? a Village, a special Chinese year)....but since Lianshengli was established in the year 1928, I was hoping that Qianlong was first earlier Village. I will check the names again, in case I just missed something. Fay Chee
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Post by evelyn on Aug 29, 2019 21:21:49 GMT -5
Hi Fay Chee, I'm sorry that I didn't see your post with this page on it. I was looking in the wrong place for messages: I'm not sure if what you found could be an earlier village. Not sure who I can ask. However, I saw in one of your later postings about someone named Wengji, it sounded familiar so I looked at the few Jaipu pages I had and found this listing. Do you think it's the same family you posted? if So, could these be my anchestors that might have migrated to Hawaii. There are some missing links for me. __________________________ Jul 7, 2019 at 7:51pm FayChee said: Hi Evelyn, I found a Village in Volume 5 of the New Situ Zupu that may be the same as the one you mentioned in your PM. Your picture of the house in the Village on page 3 of the "200 Seto Villages" book is named Lianshengli.....I am hoping that Shentang Lianxingli is the same Village. I searched every page for the names Yuquan 𢤥權 (Generation 23), Wenji 文籍 (Generation 24) and Junzhong 俊仲 (Generation 25), but did not find a match. I found one page with a box and translated it....Below is the page to show you what the box said, but it is not your family tree. I don't know what the word "Qianlong" means (? a Village, a special Chinese year)....but since Lianshengli was established in the year 1928, I was hoping that Qianlong was first earlier Village. I will check the names again, in case I just missed something. Fay Chee Read more: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/new/167#ixzz5y2tam5tx
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